Avatar of Wrath experience

[rusty217]

Well in an attempt to make this more balanced would be to up the percentage of units converted. If the avatar appearance would say convert 50% of the worlds units, and place them across the world. This wouldn't nerf the avatar because as you would expect, most of a civs units would become barbarians.

I think that an average strength size would need to be decided because some stacks could be too strong.

This would be a good idea, maybe some cities from each player could turn barb aswell
Although it would have to be tested to ensure the AI doesnt get affected much more than any players.

 

[largedarryl]

Wow...your game actually gets that far along? Not being on Pangea could make that much of a difference I suppose. The AI is horrible at using boats, so I try to stick to Huge Pangea maps. The Bannor, and the Hipppus are very destructive on such a setting, and I can usually win by conquest before the AC hits 40 (on Prince anyway).

I still find tradisional military units to be superior to disciple or caster style units for the fact that you can pump them out quicker and sooner in the game.

Of course, I have yet to try the game in the .23 version, where agriculture has been reduced/balanced.

Yeah I know the game lasted longer than it needed too. It was because I was playing at monarch difficulty and continents. I would have easily overrun more civs earlier if I was on a pangea type map.

As mentioned, the only units that I didn't see converted were hero's (wow that would really suck). There is everything from angels to high priests of every religion.

My most recent game was started on a highlands map (it is looking like barb problems are starting to affect the ai). It looks like this one will be a easy dom win (thinking a conquest could be hard with the elves I'm playing with).

Anybody that wanted to know, I resorted to a tower of mastery win . I didn't have any other choices because I was at war with everyone but Infernals and I didn't have enough of an army left to kill anyone. I was pretty dominate considering that I built the tower of master in 15 turns (rushed with 20,000 gold which was pretty easy since at 100% gold slider settings I was making 2200gold/turn. I would have won sooner but I kept buying units and buildings in other cities )

 

[largedarryl]

This would be a good idea, maybe some cities from each player could turn barb aswell
Although it would have to be tested to ensure the AI doesnt get affected much more than any players.

Well besides the long winded story I put up, that was kind of my point. I couldn't see any ai capable of dealing with the stack that is currently created by the avatar of wrath appearance. I don't even think I could have effectively dealt with the problem if I wasn't calibam. I was rushing vampires and then feasting them to lvl 10 or 11 and then specifically promoting them to fight strong stacks (like the combat V + commando vampire lords and brujahs).

I guess my idea might be a little different if the map size was different. Basically the avatar of wrath army would be quite large on huge map sizes (this is the size I ussually play at). Maybe I should do some play testing on smaller maps and try to spawn the avatar of wrath again.

 

[3141592]

The thing is, is that the Avatar is supposed to be nearly impossible to deal with. It spawns when the AC is a 90, a huge number. If it wipes out half the globe, good for it, thats what happens when you neglect the AC.

You do have a point that it is more devastating on huge maps then small. Either way it takes the same percentage of the worlds units, but on a huge map the Avatar units are more concentrated on a tile by tile basis then on a small map.

 

[kenken244]

it would help if the ai took the ac into consideration when it does stuff. like when the ac gets near 90 it will build lots of weaker units and stockpile gold so when the avatar comes it can upgrade those weak units that dont get converted into strong units. and it would help if the ai tried to reduce the armageddon counter

 

[Sarisin]

The thing is, is that the Avatar is supposed to be nearly impossible to deal with. It spawns when the AC is a 90, a huge number. If it wipes out half the globe, good for it, thats what happens when you neglect the AC.

You do have a point that it is more devastating on huge maps then small. Either way it takes the same percentage of the worlds units, but on a huge map the Avatar units are more concentrated on a tile by tile basis then on a small map.

Again, I think you must consider the game speed you are using. It is not uncommon for the AC to hit 90 in a Marathon game when the game is only half over - yr. 1,000 or so. You still have 900 turns to play!

90 is not a huge number in Marathon games because the AC moves along quickly - compared to other speeds IMO.

But, I agree with the feeling that if you have the misfortune, as I did in a recent game, of having the Avatar and his army appear on your border, you are in serious trouble. Maybe it would be fairer to distribute his army with a few lieutenants elsewhere on a huge map.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Again, I think you must consider the game speed you are using. It is not uncommon for the AC to hit 90 in a Marathon game when the game is only half over - yr. 1,000 or so. You still have 900 turns to play!

90 is not a huge number in Marathon games because the AC moves along quickly - compared to other speeds IMO.

But, I agree with the feeling that if you have the misfortune, as I did in a recent game, of having the Avatar and his army appear on your border, you are in serious trouble. Maybe it would be fairer to distribute his army with a few lieutenants elsewhere on a huge map.

I've discovered that the mod is best played in the Normal speed setting. Longer or slower settings are a bit off pace with player/AI development and spriral into a real nasty AC situation.

 

[xAlephx]

I like him as he is. He does good work.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I like him as he is. He does good work.

Interesting...I suppose one strategy for @#$%s and giggles would be to play through the game as a middle-of-the road power house, but with a huge tech advantage, pop the Avatar of wrath, and gamble that he beats on the number 1 and 2 players, then ride in and sweep up the mess?

 

[largedarryl]

Interesting...I suppose one strategy for @#$%s and giggles would be to play through the game as a middle-of-the road power house, but with a huge tech advantage, pop the Avatar of wrath, and gamble that he beats on the number 1 and 2 players, then ride in and sweep up the mess?

As was mentioned by someone earlier, his plan was to play as the clan of embers (I'm pretty sure both leaders have the barbarian trait) and then push along the AC to let the avatar of wrath destroy everyone else. Could be an interesting strategy.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

As was mentioned by someone earlier, his plan was to play as the clan of embers (I'm pretty sure both leaders have the barbarian trait) and then push along the AC to let the avatar of wrath destroy everyone else. Could be an interesting strategy.

Yes...one day, I'm going to have to try that (rubs hands menacingly).

 

[Sarisin]

As was mentioned by someone earlier, his plan was to play as the clan of embers (I'm pretty sure both leaders have the barbarian trait) and then push along the AC to let the avatar of wrath destroy everyone else. Could be an interesting strategy.

I tried that strategy playing Charadon with the Bar Trait, Darryl.

I managed that 50% pt rule (to keep the barbs from declaring war on me) religiously. Then, things went horribly wrong because when the Avatar appeared (on my border) the barbs said I was too civilized and came after me.

I still don't know why as comparing my score with the alliance (Basium + Hippus) and the next civ Hyborem, I was OK with pts.

You really have to be careful in managing that 50% threshold as you get close to the AC making 90.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I tried that strategy playing Charadon with the Bar Trait, Darryl.

I managed that 50% pt rule (to keep the barbs from declaring war on me) religiously. Then, things went horribly wrong because when the Avatar appeared (on my border) the barbs said I was too civilized and came after me.

I still don't know why as comparing my score with the alliance (Basium + Hippus) and the next civ Hyborem, I was OK with pts.

You really have to be careful in managing that 50% threshold as you get close to the AC making 90.

Hmmm....I wonder if there's a trip in the scripting that keeps you from remaining peaceful with the barbs at that point?

 

[Sarisin]

Hmmm....I wonder if there's a trip in the scripting that keeps you from remaining peaceful with the barbs at that point?

This was my thought based on the scores at the time the Avatar arrived, and 3 turns before (last auto save). I brought it up in the .22 bug thread, but I don't think there was time to look at it.

I think it is very rare that someone plays a civ with the BAR trait all the way through until the counter hits 90. I've found, by the way, that AI civs with the BAR trait seem to be declaring war on the barbs rather early in the game, really throwing away that BAR trait.