Avoiding backlash about military near border

[StormEye]

Whenever I start massing troops somewhat near other civ's border, in an attempt to take that civ over sooner or later, that civ will open up dialogue asking me what my intent is about massing troops near border.

Now, I have no intention of declaring war right now, will do so later, but if I choose the option saying "just passing by" I will suffer diplomatic penalty (which seems to spread to a civilization which did not even know they existed, separated by extreme oceanic distance).

What can I do to avoid this diplomatic penalty, once I had to choose the option of "just passing"?

 

[vexing]

the simplest way: don't lie.
it times out after some period but it's going to be significantly longer than you want to wait.

 

[StormEye]

What is actual amount of period that is required for the promise to be non-valid?

 

[StrideColossus]

I made this mistake in a recent game and every civ went to guarded because I lied, so as the other poster suggested - don't tell fibs.

I think there's two ways to try and avoid this:

1. If you're just about ready for war declare anyway to avoid the diplomatic penalty for lying. Even if you're not completely ready you can always withdraw / fortify and pick off the enemy until reinforcements arrive.

2. If you're definitely not ready don't declare and change strategy, either by targetting a different civ or turtling up for a while.

But by far the best approach is to not 'mass' your troops on their border but keep your army a few tiles back, declare and then move (depends on the terrain of course).

Yes this means that you have a least another turn or two to get into range of their cities, but in any case it's often better to let the AI counter-attack so you can pick off their units from previously fortified positions with ranged/horses, wait until their goosed and then move in your melee and seige.

Citadels are great for this tactic: plop down a GG in a good kill-zone location, stick ranged and seige units on hills with fortified melee protecting them, and use workers and fast units to bait the AI into range. Although some civs seem not to fall for this, e.g. Mongolia steadfastly refused to leave his territory in one recent game, whereas Japan did his usual kamikaze and I wiped his entire army without even a scratch on my units (and lots of nice XP into the bargain).

 

[thadian]

Keep your units 4 spaces away - the borders can only see 3 spaces if i am right, so your fair game if you have most of your units out of sight. then declare, and attack with minimal delay and no warning.

 

[Zilla]

What is actual amount of period that is required for the promise to be non-valid?

I think it is 30 turns, which is a long time.

1. If you're just about ready for war declare anyway to avoid the diplomatic penalty for lying. Even if you're not completely ready you can always withdraw / fortify and pick off the enemy until reinforcements arrive.

This is what I usually do, when they call me on massing my armies even from just a few units that happens to touch their borders. The diplo hit from lying is usually far worse than not getting an optimal start of the war, which can normally be recovered anyway.

 

[Louis8k8]

Do they notice your army if you keep a 1 cell gap away from their borders? There's times where I move a massive army to a civ but have to pass by another civ's borders, and they don't seem to be bothered.

I think I play the same as them AI in multiplayer games. My friend made a super-fast expansion in front of my base and I dow'ed him immediately to destroy that city.

 

[mike678]

Do they notice your army if you keep a 1 cell gap away from their borders? There's times where I move a massive army to a civ but have to pass by another civ's borders, and they don't seem to be bothered.

I think I play the same as them AI in multiplayer games. My friend made a super-fast expansion in front of my base and I dow'ed him immediately to destroy that city.

For the most part they cant put 1 and 1 together if you're one cell away from their borders. You can even have 1 to 2 units directly on their borders usually just don't put more then that on their borders.

 

[StormEye]

Ok, got it.

Thanks for clarification and advices.

 

[ChipB]

For the most part they cant put 1 and 1 together if you're one cell away from their borders. You can even have 1 to 2 units directly on their borders usually just don't put more then that on their borders.

I'm pretty sure you only have vision 1 tile beyond borders, so if you leave a 1 tile gap they shouldn't know you are there unless they have a unit in the area to spot.

 

[DaveMcW]

Hills on the border give 2 tile vision.

 

[mike678]

I'm pretty sure you only have vision 1 tile beyond borders, so if you leave a 1 tile gap they shouldn't know you are there unless they have a unit in the area to spot.

That's basically what I said? The one cell (or tile) gap is a a buffer between you and the ai border.

 

[ChipB]

That's basically what I said? The one cell (or tile) gap is a a buffer between you and the ai border.

Indeed. I just wanted to make it clear that the AI isn't really being stupid in this case. It genuinely doesn't know you are there if you leave that one tile gap between your troops and their border.