Axmen

[Eigenvector]

I'm curious, were axmen even an historical soldier? I know the Saxons and the Vikings (and why are they missing from this game BTW?) used them, but en masse like that? For that matter what about macemen - and technically speaking the game doesn't even refer to them by their real weapons. That would be a morningstar or flail in their hands. People used them in the high middle ages to defeat chain mail and heavy plate but I didn't think they were that common.

 

[calyth]

I might be being stereotypical here, but didn't the Vikings use axes quite a bit in battle. Various axe related links in Wikipedia seems to convince me that axes gets quite a bit of use militarily.
You said that people used mace like weapons to defeat chain mail and heavy plate, but if I recalled correctly, common foot soldiers in the high middle ages would get at least chain mail, so I think mace like weapons gets quite a bit of use.

 

[Sir Janus]

Julius Caesar coin showing Celtic warrior with axe.

 

[panzooka]

its also differ in location, for example, the chinese uses polearms and spears, weapon pretty much for all of its foot troops, the japanese were pretty much stuck with swords, blades

 

[Eigenvector]

I'm not doubting that they were used, the question is really were they that common? For some reason I'm saying no - if only because we don't have that many surviving examples.

I agree that the Vikings used axes, but if I remember right that was only because they couldn't afford the swords that they really wanted.

Is it possibly just because morningstars and flails aren't very romantic that they didn't get recorded. I know a ton of history was lost during the Victorian age as the information was skewed to match those set of ideals.

 

[Olie]

...And a Morningstarman doesn't sound quite as catchy as an Axe/Maceman.

edit - typo

 

[The Last Conformist]

The Viking use of swords wasn't because they couldn't afford swords, it was because they found them effective. Scandinavian notables of the time were often buried with battleaxes in addition to swords and spears.

The Anglo-Saxons were heavy on axes, too.

The maceman is odder - morningstars weren't common infantry weapons in the middle ages, I'm pretty sure. It's somewhat odd they included those, but not, say, halberdiers.

 

[Eigenvector]

Actually if I'm not mistaken the halberd was very historically relevant. Didn't the English slaughter the French somewhere during the Middle Ages using halberds in one rather notable battle? For the life of me I can't remember the battle, but I guess it was pretty gruesome.

Halberd is what the unit should have been, much more culturally universal - the Japanese, Chinese, Europeans, Russians, they all had them.

 

[VladTepes]

The predominant Anglo-Saxon soldier was the housecarl

that used long axes.

 

[Ranos]

There should only be a limited number of units in the game for many reasons which I don't feel I need to list. For this reason, they picked certain weapons to use on units. Axemen turned out to be one of them. Do we really need to have a thread about this?

 

[Lorteungen]

Julius Caesar coin showing Celtic warrior with axe.

That doesn't look like an axe to me, more like some kind of staff. The axe-looking thing on the right is probably fasces, it is a roman coin afterall.

 

[Xen]

The Etruscans were well known for utilizing soldires armed with axes in northern and central Italy (and so its unsuriprising that the fascaes a symbol of power for the Romans adopted from the etruscans included an axe)

 

[EdwardTking]

The advantage of axes was that you could make them with
low quality iron that would shatter if you used it for swords.

 

[calyth]

At least when I looked into it in wikipedia, there seems to be a valid argument to say that mace-like weapons were quite common at one time or another. Especially for civs that have trouble getting the sword right.

 

[Sir Janus]

That doesn't look like an axe to me, more like some kind of staff. The axe-looking thing on the right is probably fasces, it is a roman coin afterall.

I'm not an expert but the site I got the picture from http://www.kernunnos.com/culture/warriors/
said it was an axe (though re-reading the site it may be a ceremonial ax rather than a war axe).

Apparently a civilization called the "Battleaxe Civilization" (3000-2000BC) was responsible for spreading the Indo-european language on which all modern european languages are based (except Basque?).

Also in the Egyptian civilization the battleaxe replaced the mace in the time of Rameses II
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/edgedweapons.htm

As the British infantry were still regularly issued with axes at least until the American War of independence and most of the westerns I saw as a child seem to have had axe wielding injuns that makes for over 4500 years of use -on the whole I think the CivIV designers might just about be justified in including them.

That's just from the first five sites from Googling for battleaxe (ignoring the hip-hop, heavy metal and religious wierdos ).

Oops - sorry for sounding pompous.

 

[Juhahu]

Does it really matter? Perhaps "men at arms" would have been better name, bit I have taken that as general foot soldier of medival era. If soldier got a horse, he is knight. If he had pike, halberdier, he is pikeman. If he has sword, mace, morningstar or something similar he is maceman.

 

[HULKsmash]

I always thought that "Axmen" were modern day units with mutant powers such as optic blasts....

 

[Guile]

I'm curious, were axmen even an historical soldier?

Yes. Axes were more commonly used then swords for much of antiquity. Bows, Spears, and Axes were some of the most common "western" weapons pre-greece/rome. Axes are simply easier to make into effective weapons of war then swords. Swords have a far lesser importance in combat through out history then hollywood would have us know.

 

[syneris]

"A heavy medieval war club with a spiked or flanged metal head, used to crush armor" - http://www.answers.com/topic/mace

Maces and Axes were better at destroying armor and shields in battle.

its also differ in location, for example, the chinese uses polearms and spears, weapon pretty much for all of its foot troops, the japanese were pretty much stuck with swords, blades

That's borderline stereotyping right there.