Balance of the game speeds

[BlueGenie]

I wonder how are you supposed to get your town watchman promoted? Is the intention to build them in a military city that has lots of +xp or is there a way to get them levelled up that I miss? (Except putting them in a frontline city and have them get attacked, but that's not really always possible)

Because currently I just funnel all +xp (including virtually every great general) I can get into one city and only build military units there and nowhere else (except in emergencies).

You can use Nobles and Warlords to increase XP on your units too. Which is what I'm going to do now when I replace my now "bugged" Town Watchmen. As I have Archers at a dime a dozen I'll set a Noble in stack with one Archer and a Town Watchman and "lead" the Archer, thereby giving both the Archer and the Town Watchman 5XP each.
Enough times should give me some good crime fighting Watchmen again but it's going to take a tad (read "a lot") longer to do it.

On Eternity I can get a Noble out in 6 turns. Faster game should have them out faster, of course.

Cheers

 

[ls612]

You can use Nobles and Warlords to increase XP on your units too. Which is what I'm going to do now when I replace my now "bugged" Town Watchmen. As I have Archers at a dime a dozen I'll set a Noble in stack with one Archer and a Town Watchman and "lead" the Archer, thereby giving both the Archer and the Town Watchman 5XP each.
Enough times should give me some good crime fighting Watchmen again but it's going to take a tad (read "a lot") longer to do it.

On Eternity I can get a Noble out in 6 turns. Faster game should have them out faster, of course.

Cheers

I really need to increase the time it takes to train units, don't I?

Edit: Unit build times on the SVN are now doubled, and building build times have been increased as well.

 

[BlueGenie]

*laugh* Not really. Having 20 cities needing 2 Town Watchmen each @ 65 XP (for Combat V and Policing IV) with 25 starting XP means 8noblesx6turnx20cities or 960 turns@Eternity.
During that time I can not use the Nobles for anything else or it'll take even longer time.
I might, when I can, cut it at 26XP for Policing III, but if costs go up due to too many Town Watchmen (or Guards) then I'll need that extra boost to their Policing.

Had I had an Aggressive Trait Leader 50XP would have been enough for Policing IV though, meaning it's more of a bonus now than it used to be.

Cheers

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I really need to increase the time it takes to train units, don't I?

Edit: Unit build times on the SVN are now doubled, and building build times have been increased as well.

I thought the old build times were fine. I got to play with units before they became obsolete. If you have increased the build time on the units you may need to increase research time to compensate.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I thought the old build times were fine.

Me too. I think it should be put back the way it was.

 

[ls612]

I thought the old build times were fine. I got to play with units before they became obsolete. If you have increased the build time on the units you may need to increase research time to compensate.

Me too. I think it should be put back the way it was.

I don't know what your experiences were, but I was, in the prehistoric era on Marathon, able to make any military unit in 1 or 2 turns, and a Tribe in 6. I think that that is too quick for a 4500 turn gamespeed, and I figured that I needed to compensate the rest of the gamespeeds proportionally. If you want it put back, I'll put it back, but I strongly suggest you two play with the new settings for a while before passing final judgement.

 

[BlueGenie]

*BlueGenie agrees with DH and Hydro's posts*

Except for the 40% increase in building times, that could be all right.

Oh, EDIT: at least for Eternity game speed.

Cheers

 

[strategyonly]

I don't know what your experiences were, but I was, in the prehistoric era on Marathon, able to make any military unit in 1 or 2 turns, and a Tribe in 6. I think that that is too quick for a 4500 turn gamespeed, and I figured that I needed to compensate the rest of the gamespeeds proportionally. If you want it put back, I'll put it back, but I strongly suggest you two play with the new settings for a while before passing final judgement.

Pls dont change the research times AGAIN, i have to go back to marathon on certain mapscripts now, and some back to Epic because going for 1 tech sometimes takes 45 - 60 minutes PER tech, waaaay to long... like i said sometimes, on wrong mapscripts.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I don't know what your experiences were, but I was, in the prehistoric era on Marathon, able to make any military unit in 1 or 2 turns, and a Tribe in 6. I think that that is too quick for a 4500 turn gamespeed, and I figured that I needed to compensate the rest of the gamespeeds proportionally. If you want it put back, I'll put it back, but I strongly suggest you two play with the new settings for a while before passing final judgement.

On snail it takes 20-30 turns for the first tribe and 15-20 for the fourth! You are adding 4-6 turns. I will play it as see but I don't expect to be going to war much.

 

[ls612]

Pls dont change the research times AGAIN, i have to go back to marathon on certain mapscripts now, and some back to Epic because going for 1 tech sometimes takes 45 - 60 minutes PER tech, waaaay to long... like i said sometimes, on wrong mapscripts.

Tech costs are unchanged, and I hope to not have to adjust them any higher, I mostly like them the way they are now.

@DH: I'm not sure what your city is like at Tribalism, but I had six pop and only two hills being worked. No stone or production resources. I have all of the available production buildings built. Now, with the changes, it takes me 14 turns to build a tribe, which is far more reasonable IMO.

 

[strategyonly]

On snail it takes 20-30 turns for the first tribe and 15-20 for the fourth! You are adding 4-6 turns. I will play it as see but I don't expect to be going to war much.

ls612:

I dont know about everyone else, but i like the OLD snail and marathon, and epic, BEFORE you changed it last time with the new speeds, at least then i was getting used to snail, but of course, someone complained, and it was changed, so i had to move DOWN to Marathon again

 

[JosEPh_II]

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

I don't know what your experiences were, but I was, in the prehistoric era on Marathon, able to make any military unit in 1 or 2 turns, and a Tribe in 6. I think that that is too quick for a 4500 turn gamespeed, and I figured that I needed to compensate the rest of the gamespeeds proportionally. If you want it put back, I'll put it back, but I strongly suggest you two play with the new settings for a while before passing final judgement.

Maybe for Marathon but on Snail its way too slow now. Its like Snail has become Eternity speed.

 

[ls612]

JosEPh

If you want me to go back to the old tech times, I'd need to reduce the number of turns in a game by 20%, which is quite hard to do with how many turns we have (how do you get exactly 25% more time than a month). It literally took me four days to arrive at the current years to turns setup, which is very much patchwork in places. In short, it is a lot harder than it looks to reduce tech costs AND keep the progression correct.

 

[ls612]

Maybe for Marathon but on Snail its way too slow now. Its like Snail has become Eternity speed.

BG was saying that he could build one Noble every six turns, and this was on Eternity! I think that was too fast, and compensated. I have to compensate by the same percentage on every Gamespeed, or else some gamespeeds will be unbalanced.

 

[BlueGenie]

Eternity and Slavery with 30 slaves in that city, yes. It'd be slower by far if I didn't have the slaves and Slave Market.
In a city with less production power it would take me 9-10 turns instead. Still with Slavery and 20+ Slaves though.
This IS the first time I've gone full out Slavery, testing it to see how powerful it really is. It is. Don't use this test game to set production speeds against.
As an example I can build 1 Town Watchmen per turn in my capitol (every 5 units it's 2 turns).
That's 252 per turn total for units (+85%+15% for Copper Access for +100% total). Of my 126 base 57 are Settled Slaves (Citizens).
Without Slavery I'd have 69 base with +70%+15% for Copper Access for +85% and 127 total. Double the time to build.

Cheers

 

[strategyonly]

BG was saying that he could build one Noble every six turns, and this was on Eternity! I think that was too fast, and compensated. I have to compensate by the same percentage on every Gamespeed, or else some gamespeeds will be unbalanced.

No offense but when people say things like that, please have a screenshot, of what his game options are.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@DH: I'm not sure what your city is like at Tribalism, but I had six pop and only two hills being worked. No stone or production resources. I have all of the available production buildings built. Now, with the changes, it takes me 14 turns to build a tribe, which is far more reasonable IMO.

I'm lucky to get a pop 6 capital by the time I get to Sedentary Lifestyle! I can get to pop4 if I build the Venus wonder by the time I get to Tribalism.

If you are going with these changes I will need to change the merchant line and Great Engineer line so their build values remain the same.

 

[Sgtslick]

This is some of my opinion on the matter and i've been editing the xml for a few months coz I think its out been out of balance.

Spoiler :

Its only fair since techs take a ridiculously long time, every other variation of civ4 bts has a MUCH more relatively even iconstruct/itrain compared to iresearch, except this mod which is/was totally out of balance in my opinion and im super glad Is612 is realising this. Having a 3:1 unit/building to tech cost is virtually non existent, its more like 1:1 or 1.5:1, c2c has had well over a 3:1 ratio when you include the per era reductions in tech produced.

Take eternity for example it was 750 itrain compared to 2500 research, that is a 3.3:1 ratio and that is not even taking into account the per era tech penalties. The ancient penalty to tech research is 60 - meaning the ratio was like 5.3:1 actually it was more like 5.66:1, totally disproportionate if you ask me. Now in ancient era including the tech penalty the ratio is around 2.66:1 - 2.83:1, much better.

I typically play marathon with the tech rate accelerated and iconstruct/itrain increased.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Snail is now unplayable because of the increase in building and unit costs.