Balancing the use of slavery

[ironic_lettuce]

Hi guys

I've only just started getting used to using slavery to rush the production of buildings and units - but I think now I'm doing it far too much and not letting my cities grow!!

I tend to use slavery to rush settlers, workers, granaries and forges, as well as other buildings in cities that have poor production.

Are there any general tips on how often to use slavery? For instance, in my last game I ended up miles behind in GNP to begin with, because I was whipping my population to produce things - is that a big deal? Or should I catch up once my whipping is finished?

Thanks

 

[ggg]

One very common use of slavery is to whip away unhappy population, because unhappy people are useless, and the unhappiness factor, from whipping, is limited and relatively short. This is especially good when growth rate is high and the number of happiness resources is low.

If you use it on productive citizens you should always consider letting the cities grow enough in between.

Edit: Spelling

 

[Wodan]

General tips:

In general you want to whip at 2 points in a city's lifespan.
1) When it's 1-2 over the initial food boost
2) When it is about to reach the health/happy cap or has just gone over it

By initial food boost, I mean when it's small and you're working food resources only, or farmed floodplains. You're getting a lot of food coming, growing fast. And, population regrows faster the smaller the city is (it takes a LOT less food to grow the 3rd citizen than the 8th citizen).

You don't want to whip so much that you're not working those tasty food spots anymore, because then you've killed your regrowth. So, you let it grow as many people over the food that you need to whip whatever it is, then whip down so that you're only working the food.

Scenario 2 is when the city is bigger and is working a bunch of tiles. The only purpose here is to take an unhealthy/unhappy citizen and turn him into "stuff" (buildings and units). Why let that guy be wasted as a nonproductive citizen? Whip him away.

But, be careful, because keep in mind the city is bigger and you've already built the cheaper buildings. Sometimes it can take 3 or more citizens to whip a Unviersity or something. You don't really want to whip away your productive citizens, only that unproductive guy. Anything else needs to be carefully thought through, whether it's worth it to lose those worked tiles for X turns vs. having the building Y turns earlier.

Any other whipping than these 2 scenarios is non-optimal, emergency use. Such as whipping units when you get invaded. I think that qualifies as an emergency.

Wodan

 

[cabert]

Wodan has said it all.

My 2 cents : if your unhappies are from war weariness, don't be too fast whipping them away, you could just push the culture slider for the few turns of war left...

My general guidelines on whipping are
- granary gets whipped asap (almost) in every situation
- low price things, you can whip for 2 pops are good whipping candidates. This includes barracks, libraries, monasteries, axemen, catapults and the cheap buildings you have from your traits (philo rules )
- don't whip away population working good tiles. No! a library isn't better than working a gold mine! never (say never)!

 

[ironic_lettuce]

say never!

never!

thanks for the tips guys, much appreciated!

 

[ironic_lettuce]

So, does it matter that I might find myself a bit far behind at the start? Surely once I stop whipping, my GNP will shoot up, hopefully beyond that of everyone else as I'll have more cities?

 

[Thedrin]

Based on what I've read I wouldn't put any faith in the GNP value as an indicator of relative strength. GNP is base commerce minus expenses. Base commerce becomes beakers and gold (and culture). These outputs are then modified by buildings such as libraries and markets. Base commerce doesn't include these modifiers - it ignores what can be a sizeable proportion of your economy.

 

[Wodan]

So, does it matter that I might find myself a bit far behind at the start? Surely once I stop whipping, my GNP will shoot up, hopefully beyond that of everyone else as I'll have more cities?

What does "a bit behind" mean? Behind in score? Behind in the power graph? Behind in the population graph?

Anyway, to answer your question, no it doesn't matter. You're building infrastructure (whether buildings or units) that will pay dividends later.

Wodan

 

[ironic_lettuce]

Thanks guys

Wodan - I meant I was behind in GNP, but as that thread provided by Thedrin has shown, it's a pretty useless figure to go by, because it doesnt take into account multipliers like libraries etc

 

[Mutineer]

GNP does not include any effect of Improvements, any effect of specialists , any direct income source like shrine and any effect of civ to civ trade.
(Any beakers/GP produced by specialists do not effect GNP)
(If you getting 30 gp/turn from selling resources it would not effect GNP).

 

[CivDude86]

Its not the best idea to whip for a forge unless the city is really production poor since thats increases the amount each pop is worth by 25%. And rushing on the 1st turn doubles cost in case you didn't know.

 

[cabert]

Its not the best idea to whip for a forge unless the city is really production poor since thats increases the amount each pop is worth by 25%. .

right, unless you're industrious.
If you are, the forge is the single best way to make the next whips strong+ to get happiness.

And rushing on the 1st turn doubles cost in case you didn't know

wrong, it's +50%.
So if playing vanilla you're rushing something worth 31 to 40 hammers, rush it at turn 1 (or a bit more if you have a forge). It will cost you 2 pop and give you overflow of 20 to 29 hammers = nothing lost.

For warlords, it's different. You get what you pay for, so rushing at turn 1 is almost never a good option.

 

[JimT]

GNP does not include any effect of Improvements, any effect of specialists , any direct income source like shrine and any effect of civ to civ trade.
(Any beakers/GP produced by specialists do not effect GNP)
(If you getting 30 gp/turn from selling resources it would not effect GNP).

Which shows nobody bothered to check the definition before calculating the values. Somebody should mod these statistics to make them useful.

 

[pigswill]

Check economic adviser (F2) for modified values; much more useful. (of course, you can only do that for your own civ).