Barbarians in Civ VI

[Thormodr]

Loved barbs in cIV conquering cities and/or building mini empires. I even remember seeing barb empires that had world wonders. Lol.

To me, that's a lot more fun than the emasculated barbs in Civilization 5. At least CBP let them heal in their encampments which made the a little more dangerous.

Hopefully in CIV VI the barbs will be interesting and the designers come up with some really creative ideas.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Hey, reality wise it beat the heck out of having your entire troop of settlers eaten by a lion (?!?).

Panthers were the worst. Nothing like getting 1-shot and losing a settler out of the fog, even with an escort.

The only reliable way to play that was to memorize the hidden spawn bust rules and wall their spawns/movements out...not intuitive design at all. The best counter to barb galleys should not be warriors and work boats blocking them from being eligible to exist...

 

[Jewman]

Given that the game apparently begins in a state of conflict, it could very well be that the City-States are the ones launching one-unit raids on your territory rather than barbarians.

It would be quite interesting if your first relations with other civilizations is immediate war with a neighboring city state. Would make conquering city states (at least early on) more desirable.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It would be quite interesting if your first relations with other civilizations is immediate war with a neighboring city state. Would make conquering city states (at least early on) more desirable.

If not for the diplomatic and happiness consequences, taking a city state early on would be a viable opener in Civ V.

But yes, pushing the barb role partially or entirely on them could work better than "random camps of nobodies getting hammers from nowhere", maybe even with some existential risk.

 

[dexters]

I never liked something from nothing in the middle of nowhere. It's abrasive (not in the social justice sense, but in the freaking nuisance-in-game sense). Barbs are best represented by something like "minor civs" in Civ IV, akin to an always-hostile city state in V that goes on raids or occasionally tries to conquer outright.

That kind of implementation would scale for game speed better, too, and could make military-oriented early choices more viable.

Spawn-move in V is asinine too. I hate getting telefragged by barbarian camps off screen, horsemen are the worst offenders. Once experienced you can account for it and do counter-intuitive stuff like camping the camp, but getting blasted by units from off screen that spawn + move out of nowhere is fake difficulty.

This idea always appealed to me. When I speculated barbarians weren't city states or didn't eventually became city states (in Civ5) due to technical limitations up thread, Jon Shafer himself noted (quoted below)

Wasn't a technical limitation, just wanted to make sure the line between minors and barbarians was clear.

- Jon

So I think design wise, the decision was made to make Barbs lesser than minor Civs in Civ5. In Civ6, I wouldn't mind simply making all the city states barbarian factions at some point, or start out at war /hostile with them. Where the player's sort of emerge from the fog as 1 of many city states (our 1st city) struggling for survival. This would not be historically inaccurate. There could also be many more than the standard 24 allowable city state factions on a huge map in Civ6, especially if they aim for higher spec machines.
Peace with city-states could well be something only achievable later on.

 

[cain3456]

I miss the civ4 barbarians, who were actually dangerous if left unchecked. civ5's barbarians are little more than a speed bump.

 

[Callonia]

If Civ6 Barbarians is as pathetic as Civ5 barbarians. I will have no choice but be disappointed at Civ6.

Because, ya know, Barbarians can't even cap a single city.

 

[Venger]

Yep, Ci4 Barbs were best. Dangerous if unchecked, always starting cities in great spots on large maps, and soon, here come the little biremes to THWACK destroy your fishing boats DAMMIT!

On huge maps I'd often finally get ocean going vessels and discover far of archipelagos TEEMING with barb galleys - you'd sink one but then realize there are three more two spaces away to come after your weakened ship.

Barbs make for a fun early game to be sure, and as others have noted, a little effort to tweak their evolution can extend the fun even later...

 

[ignacz]

I always thought it would be neat if larger empires suffered some form of Balkanization, which could occur in several ways:

Larger empires unable to support cities would flip to other civilizations, (either creating a new independent city-state or absorbed by existing) city-states, or barbarians/rebels creating new minor civilizations that functioned accordingly.

Peripheral regions of areas conquered with distinct differences (such as religion or cultural influence) from the civilization that currently controls them waging independence or via international organization such as the UN establishing a new independent minor civilization.

Also, more favorable influence could exist if regions you are unable to support by the option of granting independence to a city or group of cities, and selecting whether or not you wanted them to become a city state or minor civ.

The flipping element has existed in previous editions of Civ, but this would be a more dynamic feature in earlier stages and later stages of the game, IMO.

 

[Seek]

Given that the game apparently begins in a state of conflict, it could very well be that the City-States are the ones launching one-unit raids on your territory rather than barbarians.

I had a similar thought when I first heard the "war is the norm" quote from Ed; but instead of just city-states, all other civs are "barbarians" until research (or some other mechanic) allows for communication and cooperation.

Come to think of it, that's how Stellaris works, though I'd like a somewhat larger investment than that game requires.

I like it!

 

[Inexist]

Civ VI barbarians would be cool if they were somehow differentiated. In civ III, you would get a message for every barb hut you took with a different tribe name, but what if all the barbs were actually somehow different. Also, barbarians need cities, the civ V barbs have no strength, civ IV on the other hand presented a challenge in terms of barbs.

 

[Callonia]

I had a similar thought when I first heard the "war is the norm" quote from Ed; but instead of just city-states, all other civs are "barbarians" until research (or some other mechanic) allows for communication and cooperation.

Come to think of it, that's how Stellaris works, though I'd like a somewhat larger investment than that game requires.

I like it!

That sounds vaguely familiar.. I think Rise of Mankind or Rise of Nations mod something on civ4 worked like that.

Everyone starts off as a tribe that settle down but doesn't communicate with other tribes until a tech unlock of some kind. It let for some early aggression and quarrels. Was fun.

Been such a long time for me I can't remember the name of mods.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Legends of Revolution for IV had "Start as minor civ" as a check box option. That way, everybody kinda is a barb. I liked that.

There have been lots of cool representations in the series. I enjoyed using top hatted diplomats to buy and flip barbs in I. I liked the late game camps of AK-47 guerilla guys in III. I liked the huts and barbs in IV.

Granted, there was more which could be done with them. I recall wishing that they take those AK guys and make them more ideological - Communists or religious zealots for example, who tried to cause grief in neighboring lands or yours, if you didn't share their views. Whether you eradicated these camps, or allowed them to flourish would affect relations with the neighbors, depending on religion/ideology.

When IV came along I was trying to get goodie huts to match their climates ( igloos and grass huts for example ) , plus some teepees and desert tents or yurts as nomadic huts. I got a modder to work on it, but his hardware failed and all was lost.

I was hoping V would allow you to secretly negotiate with barbs for mercenaries, horses and proxy wars and pay them in luxuries such as wine and gems. Oh well.

With the new gameplay of VI, I could see a barb tribe becoming a district of your city, be it agricultural, horse farm, military, commercial, etc. not just a threat.

Anyway, there's lots of room for using them in different ways and eras, whether they're called barbarians, mercenaries, pirates, anarchists, guerillas, smugglers, ... or defense contractors

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So, it seems that barbs send out scouts which return to camp to summon a raiding party when they find a civ, and if a barb scout finds your civ, you should kill it before it returns to its camp.

Seems like a good reason to use early mounted units.