Battering Ram

[Ahwaric]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that you could get xp and thus promotions from AirCombat. Aircraft in BtS can get promotions.

Unfortunatelly, I do not think so. I just tested it with siege and archers and ranged combat do not give any xp, even if it kills a unit (which I made possible for dwarven cannon). That is because I use ranged combat, the one used by starbases in final frontier. Air combat provides xp, but it is not exactly what I need

Also, I'm pretty sure that (unlike in Civ III) you can cam make units have attack, defense, promotions, etc, and still be capturable. The promotions don't carry over when captured, but that makes sense if it is a new crew on the old machinery.

You are RIGHT!!! Forgot about capturing animals and such. I made all siege engines capturable

Well, maybe. I still think that being able to have Dwarven cannons attack from a Peak, where it is essentially invulnerable, is a little much. Having the promotion that lets them move impassible also reduce cargo capacity by 1 would be a very simple fix.

Yeah, you are right. It should not allow to carry siege engines up there. "Can enter impassable terrain" is hard to balance anyway...

I did some tests on carring siege machines and decided I do not want it. Some reasons:

1. Siege engine can attack/bombard while loaded.
2. While loaded it can't be counter - bombarded
3. While equiped it is immune to flank attacks
4. Destruction of the carrier also auto-destructs the engine

This makes siege engines almost indestructable if mounted on a strong unit. Also, it is almost the same as adding a promotion to the melee unit.
I think some kind of spell castable by melee units that speeds siege engines would be better.

As for limiting it to dwarves - why? They have better siege equipment already. Mere warrior can pull as good if not better than dwarven champion

Also, it wasn't limited to just the Dwarven civs before, as other players could use Soldiers of Kilmorph, Paramanders, Stonewardens, and Runeskeepers.

If they have RoK as state religion. I do not think RoK should be better at siege than i.e. Order.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Unfortunatelly, I do not think so. I just tested it with siege and archers and ranged combat do not give any xp, even if it kills a unit (which I made possible for dwarven cannon). That is because I use ranged combat, the one used by starbases in final frontier. Air combat provides xp, but it is not exactly what I need

That's disappointing. I may have to look into the combat mechanism and see if I can edit the SDK to allow these unit to gain xp.

I was also thinking I should try to allow different damage types in AirCombat just like in normal combat, and allowing promotions to boost it. This is probably beyond my coding skill though. Maybe I'll just keep pestering Vehem until he adds it to Fall Further and I can steal his work.

You are RIGHT!!! Forgot about capturing animals and such. I made all siege engines capturable

I think that capturing animals actually uses a different mechanism, one that preserves the unit's promotions. I believe that the <Capture> tag makes it create a new version of the unit, without promotions.

Yeah, you are right. It should not allow to carry siege engines up there. "Can enter impassable terrain" is hard to balance anyway...

I did some tests on carring siege machines and decided I do not want it. Some reasons:

1. Siege engine can attack/bombard while loaded.
2. While loaded it can't be counter - bombarded
3. While equiped it is immune to flank attacks
4. Destruction of the carrier also auto-destructs the engine

This makes siege engines almost indestructable if mounted on a strong unit. Also, it is almost the same as adding a promotion to the melee unit.
I think some kind of spell castable by melee units that speeds siege engines would be better.

Yeah, I was aware of those issues. I hadn't really thought about flank attacks though, since I don't think that it is used in FfH (I'll probably add it though). I liked it before I realized I could give Siege units AirCombat/Bombing, but it might not be necessary now. I'll have to think about it. (It is still a little better than using s promotion though, since the siege units can keep their promotions.) (Hmm...may we assume that Marksmen can't attack siege units inside of a Melee carrier? That might not be good.)

You could make siege units start with an equipment promotion that when captured becomes the siege unit instead of making the unit itself be captured. This is probably more much trouble than it is worth, but I'm pretty sure the equipment would be dropped when the siege unit is destroyed along with its carrier, and thus let you capture it.

As for limiting it to dwarves - why? They have better siege equipment already. Mere warrior can pull as good if not better than dwarven champion


If they have RoK as state religion. I do not think RoK should be better at siege than i.e. Order.

Yeah, you're probably right. I don't think it would have made RoK overpowered (I'm boosting every religion, in different ways), but it would probably not be good for the Illians and Grigori.

 

[Ahwaric]

That's disappointing. I may have to look into the combat mechanism and see if I can edit the SDK to allow these unit to gain xp.

I was also thinking I should try to allow different damage types in AirCombat just like in normal combat, and allowing promotions to boost it.

After some tests I gave siege engines an innate promotion that grants them a little of free xp (on the same level that channeling 1). It also provides an ability to use enemy roads. This way siege engines can be transported quicker and will stick to the roads - exactly as it should be.
I also lowered they strength by half, so they will need protection - thus the promotion is not overpowered. I kept the old strength for ranged attacks. The normal strength is for surviving some flanking attacks only. I gave flanking attacks to all mounted units.
As normal promotions, like combat and flanking, are of no much use for siege units any more, I think of adding some promotions that boost strength, increase ranged damage or improve range. I need to check what can be done.

I think that capturing animals actually uses a different mechanism, one that preserves the unit's promotions. I believe that the <Capture> tag makes it create a new version of the unit, without promotions.

True. And it fits better capturing equipment. One thing worth noting is that you can't capture a unit if it was destroyed by flanking attack.
As for the attacking units carried by another unit, it is impossible. Thay are safe as long as the unit lives.