Bede01:Funny thing happened...

[Bede]

Funny thing happened on the way to the forum

As a sop to my curiosity I ran a forum search on Rome in thread titles and came up with only a short handful if you exclude the RBC Conquests series. The most recent was an AWE (always war emperor) game sponsored in the LoTR series. Two others were sponsored by LKendter, the most recent being an AW variant over just about a year ago, the other a Regent game played back before Christ was a corporal. The most recent LK game produced this comment from one of the lurkers:

Great game guys! Good use of the Romans who I think are one of the most underrated civs.

So, my conclusion from this unscientific survey is that Rome is an underplayed civ. The uncomplementary traits are two of the biggest reasons. I think it would make for a real challenge at Emperor level for players who are willing to take some lumps, especially in the early part of the game.

So, here is the news from the Rialto:

Civ: Romans
Level: Emperor
Opponents: Random
Map type: Continents (70% water)
Map size: Standard
All other settings: Random
All standard victory conditions enabled.
Normal AI agression
Respawn off.
Version: C3C 1.15

Specs other than civ and level are open for discussion.

LK Rules (plagiarized directly from LKendter):
The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Rape
RoP Abuse
Scout resource denial
False Peace Treaties
The negative science exploit
Ship chaining exploit
Resources disconnect/connect exploit
Palace Jump

Suckling at the wolf

Roster is full

Order of go:
barbslinger
Cuivienen
Bede
scoutsout
Sir Bugsy

 

[barbslinger]

I still have yet to play the Romans. This is not AW though is it? If it is I think I will have to pass as I am currently in 3 AW games. I would love to play the Romans straight up game with some early conquesting available of course.

 

[Cuivienen]

Even though I'm already hosting a game as the Romans (The Not-So-Corrupt Celts is actually Rome Uncorrupted, if Chieftess would ever get around to changing the title), I'll play. Any game is a good game.

 

[Gogf]

I think I'll join. I have get to play a Romans game in C3C.

 

[Bede]

Originally posted by barbslinger
I still have yet to play the Romans. This is not AW though is it? If it is I think I will have to pass as I am currently in 3 AW games. I would love to play the Romans straight up game with some early conquesting available of course.

Definitely not AW. Straight up rules, no variant. Conquest away.

The King's shilling is in your hands, barbslinger, welcome aboard.

 

[Gogf]

Oh, wait it's 1.15? Darn, I don't think I can play then, sorry . I'm still trying to work out my patch situation. If I can decide, and correct it, then I'm in, but I probably won't like be able to play.

 

[Bede]

@Cuivienen-welcome.

@Gogf- was looking forward to having you on the team

 

[Yom]

I am currently in too many sgs as it is, but it might be interesting if you make a variant where you have to win by culture, seeing as Rome is usually one of the most uncultured civs in the game.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I'm in.

I didn't think that Christ was in the military

 

[Bede]

I'll post the start in a few minutes.

 

[Bede]

Originally posted by Bede
I'll post the start in a few minutes.

Posted.

@barbslinger
Would you do the honors on the first 20?

Order of go:
barbslinger-if you would be so kind, sir
Cuivienen-awaiting his turn at the teat
Bede
scoutsout
Sir Bugsy

Usual 24/48 rule, please!

 

[scoutsout]

Checking in! Never volunteered to serve in a Legion before...this oughta be fun!

 

[barbslinger]

after we get your start and have a quick discussion. I could play the turns tonight. EDIT: Just saw the start. Is there a chance that goody hut pop barbs? If so, I'm thinking 1 NW. It also looks like it would give us less mountains. The worker to a bg of course.

 

[scoutsout]

Originally posted by Bede
LK Rules (plagiarized directly from LKendter):
The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

Scout resource denial

After the GOTM, I like the sound of that! Let's not deny Scout any resources!

Originally posted by barbslinger
... Is there a chance that goody hut pop barbs? If so, I'm thinking 1 NW. It also looks like it would give us less mountains. The worker to a bg of course.

No chance of barbs from that goody hut (We have no units with offense/defense >0) I think sending the worker to the West BG is a decent move. If he doesn't see anything good, build Rome in a day. My $0.02.

 

[Bede]

Barbs are at random. so to answer your question, barbslinger, I don't know, but scoutsout is right re the risk of barbs from a hut at this point.

Settler 1 NW is good after moving the worker 1 W, though settling on the spot is good too, unless the worker move finds Eldorado to the W.

Picking the research path before popping the hut is important, too. IIRC, if the hut yields a tech, it is the cheapest not being researched.

 

[Cuivienen]

Since we can always change techs on the first turn, move the Worker, set science to Ceremonial Burial (we'd much rather get Pottery free), found Rome, then change science to the tech of our choice (probably Writing). We lose no research changing on the first turn as we have none accumulated.

Our first tech should probably be Writing at minimum, as Rome starts with Alphabet. Writing at minimum followed by Philosophy at max or breakeven will nearly always give Philosophy first at Emperor, and then we can choose an expensive tech (Polytheism or Map Making) as our free tech to reach tech dominance around turn 50-60. Alphabet and Writing are valuable enough as trade-techs to get all of the basic techs (Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, Pottery, Iron Working, The Wheel, Mysticism) if we trade well.

 

[Bede]

Originally posted by Cuivienen
I've also found (maybe its just me...) that if research priorities are set before popping a start-location hut, the hut will be more likely to give a tech.

In any case, since we can always change techs on the first turn, move the Worker, set science to Ceremonial Burial (we'd much rather get Pottery free), found Rome, then change science to the tech of our choice (probably Writing). We lose no research changing on the first turn as we have none accumulated.

Our first tech should probably be Writing at minimum, as Rome starts with Alphabet. Writing at minimum followed by Philosophy at max or breakeven will nearly always give Philosophy first at Emperor, and then we can choose an expensive tech (Polytheism or Map Making) as our free tech to reach tech dominance around turn 50-60. Alphabet and Writing are valuable enough as trade-techs to get all of the basic techs (Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, Pottery, Iron Working, The Wheel, Mysticism) if we trade well.

Concur.

To recap:
Set science to CB.
Build Rome.
Research path: Writing=>Philiosopy
Trade for BW, CB, P, IW, TW, Myst

 

[barbslinger]

I see little mention of pottery in tech path discussions. If there is cows and wheat around I would think we want a settler factory. I agree that writing will get us pottery but will miss out on the expansion phase if we don't get a granary for food and hops and barley soonish?

 

[Bede]

I know, it's storage for hops you seek. If it pops from the hut, perfect. If not, we could set our first research goal as Pottery.

Having set the neighbors at random I did make some early decision making a little tougher.

So, lets apply a little maths here.

If we can maximise the early gold from roads, rivers and such we can get pottery in ~15-20 turns. As Rome is not Agricultural building granaries are expensive, 60 shields, IIRC. Building a couple of warriors for scouting will take ~15 turns. So we are 75 turns from a granary, if it all works out, and there no food bonuses in sight at the moment.

Given that the local terrain shows commerce bonuses, but no food bonuses, I think we do better building warriors for scouting, then a settler, then a barracks at Rome, while researching Writing at maximum, hoping our warriors can make early contacts, trade for Pottery, and find a better spot for the settler/worker factory.

A tuppence worth...

 

[barbslinger]

I would love it if a scout finds another spot for a settler factory and Rome can pump vet warriors for upgrade. There is nothing I would like more than to bag the tech lead out of the gate heading for philo/freebie. It seems to be the way of the Romans. We'll have to wait to see what the map has in store for us. Has anyone checked F10 for opponents yet?