Beginner's Guide to Diplomacy?

[schtick]

... Or how to buy yourself time without totally hobbling yourself.**

Giving stuff away isn't always bad. Giving tribute isn't an affront. Think of it as buying time. AI civs are more than happy to backstab you, there's no reason why you shouldn't give a little up to buy time or to bribe a war or for whatever reason even if it's a bad trade (not always but most people, much like with slavery, start from a point of "Oh you MUST be joking!"). Trades can be early warning systems, they can endear you to powerful civs until you've had the time to develop to conquer them, then can be used to bribe 2 powerful civs to weaken themselves against each other and acheive your strength level and you swoop in for the kill or just enjoy the parity.

Just be smart on who you're conducting ongoing trades with and who you might be alienating from them. Be smart on your religious choices and whose demands you submit to (until you can make then submit once and for all). If you're not sure and the diplomacy screen and your power level holds you on par with the leaders then just hold off until you decide who you want your allies to be.

Tributes and resource demands can be as much of an opportunity as anything else.

* F9 is your friend. Hit it, select Power from the drop down and know where you are. You don't need to do it every turn but you need to generally know where you are. If you're weak you're in little position (largely) to go antagonizing civs unless you're at a bottleneck and it's pre-naval units. EVen still you may want to consider at least triremes or fortify your "interior" coastal cities if you tick a lot of people off.

* Open Borders - Yes, this means that some civs are just scoping out your terrain and defenses. Of course they'd know that from the power graph how strong or weak you are anyway! So unless you're pulling a bottleneck/backfill move where you seal off a section of land to settle behind yourself at your leisure, it's not a horrible plan to get the +diplo bonuses from OB. At least until you know whose side you want to be on. Besides, this way you can scope out their terrain and possibly target resources as well.

* Religion - if you didn't found one and one spreads to your land, that doesn't mean you HAVE to change to it right away. Sometimes it's better to wait to be asked if you don't need other benefits from buildings or civics. Sometimes it's better to wait until the predominant one (or the one of the strong civs) spreads to you. You don't necessarily want to be siding with the weak, minority civ (again, F9) and it's you against the bullies. Unless that's what you want. The corrolary is that even if you founded one and you find yourself in the minority, it doesn't mean you shouldn't necessarily switch. Unless you're strong enough or like being at the bottom of the dogpile. Remember, Civ is fluid. You can always capture that other holy city later on or spread your religion further than that one and make it worthwhile for everyone else to switch.

* Tribute Demands - Often this will be the Civ who is strongest at the moment demanding things from you. But then again often it's not (or they're too far away though unfriendly lands to be a threat). Again F9. Also look at the relationships. If they're not on your border, but they're friends with someone who is it might be time to worry. If they're much weaker than you and have few friends, then it might be time to blow them off. Don't just reject tribute demands out of hand though unless you're the top dog or near it (or going to be near it when you rish buy). Remember that any trade buys you 10 turns of peace treaty that you can use to build yourself up or otherwise protect yourself. Ongoing trade (i.e. sheep for deer can serve as an early wrning sign for relations. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't watch for stacks of units at your borders...)

By the same token, don't give a really strong civ a key military tech or resources unless you're bribing them to go kill someone else. That's likely to come back and haunt you. One tactic is to research a non-AI tech path like Aesthetics or non-war techs and then trade that for your war techs. Since none researched it, you can trade it to many civs for different techs. Just make sure you're not sacrificing your defense to choose the orad less traveled.

If you DO decide to give a tech tribute then in the same turn look at what everyone else needs. You already gave the tech away, and unless you have no tech brokering turned on they're likely going to at least trade it to their friends next turn. You may as well get the tech/gold/whatever from it instead of them!

In other words, if you give a freebie (possibly intelligently, to the huge pitbull at your doorrstep) then see who else wants that tech and work the best deal for yourself from it. Often you can trade the same tech you just gave away for multiple techs from multiple civs. A smart civ trades from the bottom up though. Again, you don't want to make the strongest or second strongest civ stronger. That said, you might be able to bribe another civ to go to war against your nemesis. If you join in that's even better diplomacy with another strong civ.

Helping in war - Speaking of that, you can DoW (Declaration of War) on a civ but never actually go attack it and still get the Diplo benefit. It's a risk as it's possible that that civ may stay at war against you even after your pal sued for peace. But if you keep your strength up, they've got war weariness or it's just not worth coming after you you can declare war and after some time declare peace. Note that this works poorly against aggressive civs. They tend to have long memories and are somewhat irate. It may take some playing with this to get the feel but it can be worthwhile, even if you never attack the civ you declared on.

Warring - And speaking of war, not every war needs to be fought to the bitter end of your opponents civilization. Vassals are an option, but even if they won't capitulate (or you don't want them to), if you (or they) have alphabet you can often sue for peace for some tasty techs! No one's saying you can't eradicate them after the mandatory 10 turn peace treaty is done. This is a tactic that can be used to backfill techs if you got behind on in the war.

--- I'm sure there's more that I stumble upon, I just know that some of thise knee jerk stuff is what I struggle with (and when I overcome it it helps me... a LOT) if people find this useful I'll backfill this, if not well, I feel better



** Disclaimer, I truly AM a beginner-sort player, I win on Noble only sporadically. And while I'm trying to master the warmonger mentality, sometimes I just need some time to get there. These are things that my new butt found sort of works and stuff that I struggled with at the outset. I'd welcome advice from better players but (and it's entirely possible I missed it in the MANY good article here) I never really saw a lot that would counter my knee-jerk (and often bad) response to things in terms of diplomacy.

I also realize I'm tipping my hand to just how dumb I am, but surely I can't be the only one.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

1. Run the religion of people who would otherwise murder you. If you can protect yourself, run whatever you want.
2. Mind worst enemies in trades.
3. The AI is coded not to attack people with a certain % of their power. It depends on the leader what the odds are if you're below the threshold - if you have someone that can attack you, build enough units to avoid DoW or at least losing cities/tiles.
4. Play aggressive yourself - don't be shy attacking someone if it doesn't make you the world's hated enemy. Making a religious trading block, leaving someone out as a heathen, and then murdering the heathen is a very strong approach. AI warmongers like it when you do this also as they'll also declare war.
5. Mind favorite civics and take advantage if it doesn't cripple you to do so.
6. Don't refuse requests unless the strategic gain to the enemy is too large - keeping AI's off you or merely improving relations (to the point where they can't DoW) is often worth it.
7. Most AIs are more likely to attack civs they border. Again, consult the charts on that, but generally speaking favor civs near you, until you kill them.

 

[schtick]

Damn you for being so succinct.

Still, in my defense (and maybe I'm just dumb) I didn't realise the whys and therefore the caveats to this stuff. Actually no, I stand by my reply.

Jerk!

Gimme Construction!

 

[schwartz]

Good article. I like the detail, it's better for a beginner so you've done what you wanted to.
A couple specific comments:
OB: I'll sign OB all around early on, but once the religious and diplomatic picture forms you need to choose friends, and fast. This is more important on Monarch+

Tech trading and targeting:
You should be aiming at specific techs all along so you can deftly swap them around and get a bunch out of it. Some good techs that the AI doesn't prioritize are:
Aesthetics
Compass (sometimes)
Paper (after you tech edu)
Code of Laws
Currency (sometimes)

My diplomacy is mostly the pointy-stick variety

 

[RichardMNixon]

Could someone go into more depth on when it is appropriate not to sign an OB? Does an OB give you "You traded with our worst enemy?" I used to just assume it was something you should do always.

I've recently tried not signing them with people on my continent so that I get more overseas trade routes, is that necessary or will your cities always seek the most lucrative trade routes?

 

[Gooblah]

Just do it always...it gives bonuses on trade routes, etc.

Your cities automatically get the most profitable trade routes.

 

[MrCynical]

Could someone go into more depth on when it is appropriate not to sign an OB? Does an OB give you "You traded with our worst enemy?" I used to just assume it was something you should do always.

Really the only situation I can see is if your borders are blocking off uncolonized land. Otherwise you may as well get the better trade routes and access to their territory.

I've recently tried not signing them with people on my continent so that I get more overseas trade routes, is that necessary or will your cities always seek the most lucrative trade routes?

Not necessary (indeed this is actively detrimental). Your cities will always form the most profitable trade routes possible.

 

[ese-aSH]

Just do it always...it gives bonuses on trade routes, etc.

Your cities automatically get the most profitable trade routes.

and so do the cities from your ennemies... check the demographics to know if you make benefits or deficits from the trade routes.

 

[vicawoo]

Look up the OCC cultural victory guide to learn how to be the Pakistan to the AI's USA (zing)

 

[mirthadir]

Could someone go into more depth on when it is appropriate not to sign an OB? Does an OB give you "You traded with our worst enemy?" I used to just assume it was something you should do always.

I've recently tried not signing them with people on my continent so that I get more overseas trade routes, is that necessary or will your cities always seek the most lucrative trade routes?

Your cities automatically flip to the most profitable routes you can manage. AFAIK OB does not trigger YTWOWE.

That being said the only time I've found a major use for not opening borders is if I'm at a hard bottleneck between two blocs of AIs and I think I stand to gain more by playing tech broker between the two than I do from better trade routes (i.e. I'm on the end of a long landmass and two AIs are on an island just across the water). This also allows you to trade with both Buddhist Izzy and Hindu Sal by staying pagan; better you are less likely to get YTWOWE points. The problem with this being that rarely does the AI tech up enough different paths that I can recoup more beakers from brokering than I could with better trade routes all around. Pretty much you need a good mix of a religious techer (someone who likes running up theocracy), a warmonger (who will go HBR, machinary), and an econ whore (CoL, Currency).

Other uses include:
1. Helping other AIs stay alive. Normally this happens when I've rushed some poor guy for his capital and he got metal online before I could finish him off. If some one else joins to kill him, I will often cancel OB to stop the invasion force from killing off the weak civ I intend to conquest.
2. Slowing an AI in the race for circumnavigation. Either because they are exploring with a workboat or galley while I do the same or because I've made a canal that will shave dozens of turns off them having to go around the long way.
3. Slowing missionary transit. Yes I may want to eventually open my borders to your lovely hindu missionaries, but first let me send my Christian missionary(s) off to the areligious pagan city spammer.
4. I'm quasi-isolated with only one civ I intend to kill and OB helps them much more than me. This is particularly true if I'm going for a late rush (prats, camels, numidians, catas, CKNs, etc.) and I'm trying to destroy them before they get the key counter tech (feudalism, engineering, machinery).
5. On a related note, if I'm racing them to lib or music I might cancel OB if it nets me a turn of comparative advantage.

One thing I have been considering, mostly in the context of AP diplo wins, is what utility (if any) is there in not signing OB with a most hated civ of you buddies until you can dump the missionary inside before your buddy can demand you cancel deals and never get to spread your late religion.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Couple things on OB

- You usually want them because foreign trade routes give more commerce than domestic.
- You do not get a "traded with worst enemies" demerit merely for opening borders.
- AIs WILL ask you to stop trading with their worst enemy if you have OB or resource trades with them. Refusing this request pisses one AI off, accepting it pisses the other off...-1 in both cases usually (sometimes -2 for certain AIs).
- OB is not needed for religion to spread automatically, it just needs the trade network, however closing borders DOES block missionaries.

Only a few times you wouldn't want to open borders:

1. You blocked an AI with cities/culture, and you're afraid it will take its military and attack a barb city behind your blocking sites, or sail around you to settle an island. Keep an eye out for this and close borders if need be - doing it without an enemy requesting it doesn't piss the AI off.
2. You want a SPECIFIC ai to send a missionary to spread religion to you, only open borders with that AI at first...not perfect but it raises the odds of getting your desired religion.
3. Screw AI pathing at war (be creative when you're sandwiched and can do this).

I'm probably forgetting one or two...just mind how they work and you'll figure it out easily enough.

Also worth mentioning here, even though it's not diplomatic directly ----> once you have OB, scout the AI cities out. Know where they are, what strategic resources they have, and where their stack is positioned.

If you're ultra lazy and hate micro, at LEAST build a scout after everyone has settled cities, take the scout and press "e". You might have to go looking for the SoD later but at least then you'll see your whole continent by scouting through AI territory. This is more important than a lot of people think. It can save war turns finding the enemy, show key pillage opportunities, or call to the player's attention, for example, that the enemy can't make knights, or toku has no iron so no samurai OR crossbows. Always scout.