beign a democracy SUCKS

People pay for their armies in democracy and republic. The commerce they make in the city goes to taxes which pays the soldiers.

In the other gov't, the people are more or less forced to become soldiers, thus the unit support.


Communism is great for small, spread out empires, but for massive empires you will simply have a crappy core with 60% corruption.


Say the average city by the time you would switch to communism from democracy thanks to a painful war, is size 15.

That's 16 (remember the city square itself) extra commerce. lets make it 12 for corruption reasons. Take that 12 and divide it into 50% taxes, 50% science. Since you have a bank and market place from your wicked democracy building projects, it means you earn 12 gold.

communism's free unit support gives 8 free gold's worth of a unit in a size 15 city.

That means you can allocate 50% more of your treasury for units in a democracy.
 
Widowmaker, you're stupid. You can still conduct short wars in democracy that gain cities and with a lot of luxuries you can go for even longer and with suffrage and police stations its even easier. Democracy is much better
 
uh Mummyman, calling someone stupid is never going to win a debate, no matter how much you can back that claim. (Like using my evidence above ;)).

(In other words it's important to be nice).
 
Originally posted by widdowmaker
The ONLY argument i have heard for beign a demo is no coruption. or near that.
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Well, as many have already mentioned, Democracy also turbocharges your economy. Nay, SUPERcharges your economy, boosting science and luxuries to give you an edge over the rest of the world. Democracy is an excellent way to get a tech lead over the competition, allowing you to complete the space race or knock out their obsolete armies with your newer units. :borg:

Democracy's major disadvantage is that it needs to have the proper infrastructure. Marketplaces are a must to keep the people happy, particularly during wartime. Other trade and science improvements are necessary to maximize the potential of your economy and research base (a potential which is much higher than Monarchy :king: or Communism). Plus, you definitely need to grace your entire empire with roads to get the commerce running smoothly. It's a lot of work, but you should have been doing most of that (well, at least the roads) prior to your discovery of Democracy.

I personally like the Republic, since it provides a lot of Democracy's advantages and also because I find myself embroiled in wars a lot, but I can do fine with war weariness in Democracy too. All in all, it's all about maximizing your empire's potential, and that won't happen overnight. It takes several turns for you to build the appropriate base for a Republic or Democracy, so it's best if you be patient after you switch governments.

Uncle Dynamite
 
communism is terrible. why would you want your core cities to take a massive hit with corruption? like hygro said, even with the unit support, demo still makes more money. add on the pop rush and the next to no science and communism can be summed up in two words. IT SUCKS

If you want to fight wars, just go with monarchy. i dont understand comm. doesnt monarchy have less corruption and almost the same war weariness with more money. or am i just ********?
 
There's one not-so common instance where I found communism barely lowered my commerce, and rasied my production:

I had a small number of equally powerful coastal cities spread out throughout the whole world. My production went up, my commerce barely lowered. To top it off I was religious so switching was painless.
 
Communism isnt really a govt u all of a sudden one day decide to switch to, to make your empire better. You kind of have to go into the game set on conquest and one day switching to communism.

war = attacking another civ, destroying some of thier units, maybe taking over 1 or 2 of thier cities or razing a couple.

conquest = capturing enemy cities, quickly suppressing it and turning it around to pump out more attackers for you, and then doing the same thing over again in an endless cycle until by the end of the game youve captured 10, 20, or 50 of thier cities.

Democracys rock at war, but suck at conquest. Communism is perfect of conquest.
 
hmm, i guess you're right because you could pump out units just as fast on the front line because of the communal crap. but by the time you get comm, u should already have lots of railroads.
 
When I said coastal cities, I meant island cities, so moving troops from one place to another is hard. This example is the only example of useful comunism that I've found.
 
Originally posted by naf4ever
Communism isnt really a govt u all of a sudden one day decide to switch to, to make your empire better. You kind of have to go into the game set on conquest and one day switching to communism.

war = attacking another civ, destroying some of thier units, maybe taking over 1 or 2 of thier cities or razing a couple.

conquest = capturing enemy cities, quickly suppressing it and turning it around to pump out more attackers for you, and then doing the same thing over again in an endless cycle until by the end of the game youve captured 10, 20, or 50 of thier cities.

Democracys rock at war, but suck at conquest. Communism is perfect of conquest.
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Hmm, you've convinced me to try a game with communism...

OTOH, I could say a similar thing about being a conquering democracy:

-start planning it in the early middle ages, figuring out where you can conquer and still keep close to a palace. Remember with lots of battles you can expect to get a GL and move your capital.

-you need to goad the AI into attacking you first, and happiness wonders and Universal Suffrage are very important.

-pick your opponents, allies, and trading partners carefully to make sure you have access to all 8 luxuries at all times. Wean your civ off luxury dependence by conquering cities with luxuries you still have to trade for.

-avoid WW by planning for 20 turn cycles of peace (building improvements, roads, fortresses, etc) and 20-30 turn cycles of conquest (use alliances and MPP's, CAREFULLY). Use mobilization judiciously towards the end of either cycle.

-corruption in the periphery is nasty, but by disbanding a unit in the city before rushing you can get the basic necessities, ie a harbour, marketplace, and a library/temple in 5-6 turns. I typically rush 2-3 improvements per turn total across my civ, and still have money for upgrades and espionage (mostly sabotage and propaganda).

In any case I've met the above criteria for "conquest" as a democracy many times (though I still depend on core for new units, not the conquered territories). Sometimes it backfires, and maybe I am trying to skate uphill and would find it all much better as a communist, but I like the flexibility of high income. And with dedicated management I can get over 50 productive cities (i.e. 10 shields/turn or greater) on a large map, maybe more I've never actually counted.
 
-you need to goad the AI into attacking you first, and happiness wonders and Universal Suffrage are very important.

This for me would be pretty harsh to get use to. For when cavalry and tanks arrive i usually line them up on the border 1 turn away from an enemy city. By suprise attacking them it lets me take multiple cities in that first turn that i declare war. Otherwise (especially when they got railroad) giving them even one turns notice lets them fortify units to their frontlines or start drafting mass infantry men which makes taking thier places much harder.

Also dont forget the one part where communism can compete or out match a democracy, production.

In addition when it comes to nuclear war, i dont think any empire can match the endurance of a huge communist empire. With the exception of the capital they have no real "core" that can be taken out. With democracy once your real productive cities have been nuked your empire is pretty much out of commission. With communism you are like a hive that keeps on ticking until your very last city goes.

So i guess with this in mind, democracies biggest weaknest doesnt even come into play except on the hardest difficulty levels, that being its vulnerability to precision attacks. Say an aggressive AI on diety level (or a human in multiplayer) who suprise attacks without warning and takes over and razes your city with a forbidden palace. Something like that could seriously cripple a republic/democracy. But for communism it would just be another city, same as all the rest.
 
Demo's advantages are extra commerce, lower corruption and faster workers (which, if I'm not industrious, I really appreciate). The drawback is war weariness.

I fight aggressive wars all the time.

Universal Suffrage helps. Police Stations help. The luxury slider helps. Etc. But the #1 helper is overwhelming force, to keep the war short. #2 is proper positioning. If you have your forces in place to deal with a potential threat, you don't have to scramble once the threat gets uppity. Just wake up your troops kick butt.

If you're religious, this isn't really much of a question. You can switch to whichever government you want whenever you want. Though I'd be inclined to use Monarchy instead of Communism if I had a decent Palace/FP setup.

-Arrian
 
naf4ever - man, in my game, qhen I changed to Communism, the level of corrupition was NOT equal in all cities! actualy it was just like Democracy, but worse!!! the distant cities (Huge map) had a production of 1 gold and 1 shield!!! I don't know if this is a bug of my version (the olddest) or if is anything else! In my games democracy was better - with or without war!
 
Originally posted by GiggasRed
naf4ever - man, in my game, qhen I changed to Communism, the level of corrupition was NOT equal in all cities! actualy it was just like Democracy, but worse!!! the distant cities (Huge map) had a production of 1 gold and 1 shield!!! I don't know if this is a bug of my version (the olddest) or if is anything else! In my games democracy was better - with or without war!
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1 gold and 1 shield huh? Well either:

1) you switched but are either still in anarchy or mistakenly picked monarchy or despotism

or

2) your game is screwed up.
 
was the corruption percentage equal?
 
that must be where i went wrong i attempted to change my government without any tempels.

Then Whalaa!! skyrocket chaos, rioting, and corruption. I had no choice but to quit that game and eagerly start another.

Anyone willing to add to that?
 
Originally posted by naf4ever
-you need to goad the AI into attacking you first, and happiness wonders and Universal Suffrage are very important.

This for me would be pretty harsh to get use to. For when cavalry and tanks arrive i usually line them up on the border 1 turn away from an enemy city. By suprise attacking them it lets me take multiple cities in that first turn that i declare war. Otherwise (especially when they got railroad) giving them even one turns notice lets them fortify units to their frontlines or start drafting mass infantry men which makes taking thier places much harder.
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That's definitely an advantage I can appreciate. Often my wars are slow to start (take one city quick, usually by naval invasion, then dig in a few turns to wear down the enemy). I also tend to be conservative with my units and use lots of bombardment. A successful campaign in my games involves taking 10-15 cities over a 10-20 turn period (industrial era), and losses usually around 1-2 attackers per city taken, plus a handful of defenders in counterattacks. Note this is the successful version, which doesn't always happen.:(

Still, I'd have trouble getting used to a core that doesn't produce at peak efficiency. Can you still maintain a tech lead as communist? Guess that depends on what sort of democracies you're competing with, and if you can slow them down....
 
Civilization III - The only game where you can rule a nation for thousands of years, yet never get to finish building your palace.
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HAHAHAH now THAT'S funny.

i agree withyou windowmaker, America is a republic.

We are under a new kind of USA, a government that can pass bills and laws without the consent of the american people in in the might name of homeland security.

don't get me started hehe :D

Our government is co-ran by elite business industrial leaders whom fund ENTIRE presidential campaigns to serve their business personal needs.

So you see, we taxpaying citizens get screwed once again

:king:
 
Well i will have to give Demo ANOTHER chance. But for a warmonger like me it just dont work. On the subject of Real life governments i say america is a Despotic Republic. In that despotisisim is esensaly a dictator ship (the blue colar workers get screwd) and a republic on the outside. The pres gots no power. IT is ALL in the oil companys. MY NEW SIGANTURE!

"Earth is hell. They just changed the name."

Back on topic. That guy (forgot name) had it right. Commie it is just a city lost. And yes i WOULD rather have 100 citys with 50SPT and 50GPT and size 10. Then 10 citys at 180SPT and 220GPT. Those hundred citys if i made them all produce the same unit. (how many sheild is modern armour? 120?) in 2 turns. thats 100 modern armor every 2 turns. Spread out around my empire. WIth rails i could put them ANYWHERE.

In a demo it woudl take MANY turns to ammas a force like that!
 
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