Benchmarks for Monarch/Emperor domination attempts?

[futurehermit]

I'd just lieke to see what people think are decent benchmarks for monarch/emperor domination attempts given the following:

-settings: continents, normal speed, standard size, rest default

-benchmarks:

1) How many total cities at 1 AD?

2) How many total cities at 1000AD?

3) What year for liberalism? (Does not necessarily mean you get free tech, just when do/should you acquire it?)

4) What century represents a good domination victory for these settings? (keep in mind normal speed)

In light of these benchmarks, what is the best way to approach a domination victory if aiming for a sub-1700AD victory given these settings?

 

[cabert]

I'd just lieke to see what people think are decent benchmarks for monarch/emperor domination attempts given the following:

-settings: continents, normal speed, standard size, rest default

-benchmarks:

1) How many total cities at 1 AD?

2) How many total cities at 1000AD?

3) What year for liberalism? (Does not necessarily mean you get free tech, just when do/should you acquire it?)

4) What century represents a good domination victory for these settings? (keep in mind normal speed)

In light of these benchmarks, what is the best way to approach a domination victory if aiming for a sub-1700AD victory given these settings?

still not had your first emperor domination ?
Can't answer your question off the bat, but I'll try an emperor domination and tell you some day.

I don't think the benchmark is relevant, though.
IMHO a high level domination can be achieved either by :
- leveraging a specific advantage to get into steamrolling position (powerfull UU, lightbulbed chemistry, ...)
- adding regularly to your empire. When I try this, I use size 2. WHat does that mean? It means adding 2 cities each time, then healing, building up a bit, rinse and repeat. In order to make it domination, I focus on cultural buildings in newly captured cities for a quadruple bang 1) land (=power ) 2) getting rid of "we yearn for our motherland"+drafting possibilities later 3) being able to move/heal faster 4) cultural defense. This would lead to something like this :

2000 BC : 2 cities
1000 BC : 4 cities
1 AD : 6 cities
500 AD : 8 cities
1000 AD: 10 cities
looking for liberalism and/or nationalism at this point, making the rest a bit slower for 500 years, but a lot faster afterwards

1500 AD to 1700AD domination war : going for vassals is the fastest way to move, although the needed land may become too scarce for it.

note : in this second situation, you really have the worst diplomatic realtions possible if you break a peacefest. You really need to use triangle diplo to break it up before hand.

the best way to reach an early domination is to select a worthy leader :
- Rome (augustus or Julius can do it)
- Cyrus (you will need to pillage a lot early to stay afloat in the $ departement, but steamrolling after only 2 techs is the fastest possible way, don't you think ?)
- Shaka : impies can get CR promotions and are quite fast . Even better than immortals, but cost a bit more. + ikhanda is available from turn 1 and acts like a mini courthouse + barracks!

 

[Sjaramei]

1) How many total cities at 1 AD?
Depends if i axe rush or not. 4-6 usually.

2) How many total cities at 1000AD?
Depends on my economy, at this point i have wiped out at least one civ, maybe two so i guess 12-16 at least.

3) What year for liberalism? (Does not necessarily mean you get free tech, just when do/should you acquire it?)
As soon as possible It varies a lot depending on economy and other leaders. I've gotten it as early as 680(think thats my quickest)-800 and as late as 1200 (still getting free tech ) sometimes.


4) What century represents a good domination victory for these settings? (keep in mind normal speed)
If you manage it in the 1600's it would be awesome (1700-1800 still acceptable/good, 1900+ = bad)

In light of these benchmarks, what is the best way to approach a domination victory if aiming for a sub-1700AD victory given these settings?

Probably not the answer you want but... play marathon/epic... it's so much quicker doing AI's then. (you can easily axe rush two civs instead of just one etc) If you are aiming for a domination victory.. normal is too fast for my taste. I play epic most of the time, and marathon if i intend to really crush AI's
Normal is for culture/space ship wins
(i play emperor difficulty)

 

[cabert]

Normal is for culture/space ship wins
(i play emperor difficulty)

I have a bunch of monarch domination victories at normal speed.
At emperor level, I only have 1 epic victory and it was Rome (WotM 4), but I bet that using the vassals to a certain extent and finishing with frigates, galleons, cannons and grenadiers is largely doable before the 1700s at normal speed.

 

[Sjaramei]

I have a bunch of monarch domination victories at normal speed.
At emperor level, I only have 1 epic victory and it was Rome (WotM 4), but I bet that using the vassals to a certain extent and finishing with frigates, galleons, cannons and grenadiers is largely doable before the 1700s at normal speed.

Yeah i know normal domination is possible. (i played almost normal exclusively at start up to monarch. I switched to epic there to tune my play more.)
But if you from the start intend to warmonger i think it's silly picking normal speed unless you wanted some more challenge in the difficulty. (quicker wars etc)
I like being able to war with my units for more than a couple of cities

 

[Pete2006]

I have a ton of emperor domination victories under my belt (It's the only way I know how to win).

If you can get Lib around 1000 AD, you'll usually get the free tech. That's the date I go for anyway.

If you really focus on war, you can get a domination in the 1500s on normal. I would commonly get wins in the 1100-1200s on marathon but I haven't played that speed since warlords.

As for cities, it really depends on the land. I usually build 3-4 settlers and take the rest through war. If my science rate is over 60% then that means I'm not warring enough.

 

[Heffling]

Typically on Monarch I'll have wiped out one civ, and have 6-8 cities (depending on lay of the land), when I hit liberalism around 600-900AD. At that point I will pick either gunpowder (if I have engineering and want to go for chemistry) or nationalism (if I have music and horseback riding and want to go for cavalry). Because I always play on normal, I typically go for cavalry. It's easier for me to trade for music than it is to work towards engineering (I typically won't even have machinery).

 

[futurehermit]

Does it seem reasonable to have ~6-8 cities ca. 800AD and then go for cavalry ca. 1000AD and then explode outwards, still winning by domination ca. 1700?

 

[cabert]

Does it seem reasonable to have ~6-8 cities ca. 800AD and then go for cavalry ca. 1000AD and then explode outwards, still winning by domination ca. 1700?

yes, at prince level

monarch level would still be OK, although facing a little more units will make it less of a cakewalk

emperor level, you may get an edge, but not steamroll everyone around (at least not if you start with 6 cities, starting with 8, you could have 8 cavalries very soon = 2 captured cities very soon).

6 cities sound a little small for a massive attack.

 

[patagonia]

If I'm going for domination on Monarch level, I prefer to expand out to about 7-10 cities pre-liberalism eliminating one opponent in the process. Unless you're in a particularly close race, you can trade up to guilds and start massing knights while you grab military tradition as the free tech (note - using the free artist from music to pop most of nationalism helps a bunch with this, but isn't necessary if you're teching fast enough).

Once MT is in, either sell old techs to finance mass upgrades to cavalry, or if there are no wealthy AIs, set the slider to zero for a bit. Having a stack of about 20 cavalry within a few turns of getting MT is incredibly powerful. Use the flanking 1+2 promotions on some "suicide cavs" for a 50% withdrawal chance when weakening those tough defenders and you can rip through most AIs without the need for any siege backup (using the medic 3 warlord from your early war of expansion helps here).

The tech path means you're just one away from chemistry, so if one of the AIs does manage to start massing rifles against you, the perfect counter is very close.

To be extra sneaky, bribing your first two intended victims into a war with each other to weaken them before dogpiling on the first can work wonders.

 

[CivSetä]

Checked my latest game playing Mehmed, emperor level. Great continents domination start, had 5 AIs in my continent!!! Almost like pangea, but this would have been fast anyway. Didn't notice normal speed, this one was played on marathon (never play faster speeds).

1) Number of cities 1 AD?

10 cities, axerushed both Mansa and Alex, crippled Bismarck. Good relations to Hannibal and ragnar for trading purposes. If I had less AIs on my continent, I would have left at least 2 opponents alive.

2) Number of cities 1000AD?

Still only those 10 cities, had to recover. I burnt rest of Germany, though...

3) Liberalism date

1030 AD, grabbed Military tradition. Got Gunpowder already and started to crank up cavalry. No need for cats/trebs!

4) Victory date
1300 AD, killed/vassallized everyone in my continent. Annoyed Gandhi was alone on a large continent with 5 religions, but had nothing to trade.

Great game, I used hybrid economy to get needed 6 GS from my two GP farms (academy+philo+paper+½edu+liberalism+printing press). Alex helped a bit by building pyramids for me. Cottagespam on everywhere else, shut down research after getting chemistry (just after liberalism). Astronomy would have been next if my continent had been smaller.

 

[Galileo44]

The major determination in the date of victory is if your starting continent is enough for domination. If it is, then I have gotten victoy in the 1200ADs.(Rome ) If not, then it is much, much later.

 

[futurehermit]

The major determination in the date of victory is if your starting continent is enough for domination. If it is, then I have gotten victoy in the 1200ADs.(Rome ) If not, then it is much, much later.

good call!

ok, so basically the overwhelming message i'm seeing here is that cavalry are the key to a fast victory and that ~10cities is a good number to shoot for before hunkering down for the economic recovery/liberalism race.

those seem like good benchmarks to me.

 

[cabert]

good call!

ok, so basically the overwhelming message i'm seeing here is that cavalry are the key to a fast victory and that ~10cities is a good number to shoot for before hunkering down for the economic recovery/liberalism race.

those seem like good benchmarks to me.

At least, you have some checkpoint here.
I tried with 6 cities at emperor yesterday, and got beaten to liberalism .

Short story:
1- settings:
- playing cyrus
- snaky continents, normal speed, emperor level

2- what happened
- teched to immortals + BW.
- No bronze in sight, but horses in 2 places. I grabbed both, but neither site was good (one was really food poor, but had gold, the other was a bit more correct on food (pigs), but with only a few land tiles to work (only jungle all over it, including on the pigs' hill and more than 10 tiles water).
- I also grabbed a decent early production site, + later a decent GP farm (2 food resources + a lake, not brilliant, but didn't have anything better).
That made 5 cities, self built.
- I jumped on Churchill (protective !), since he was nearest. He still was 30 tiles away, so I couldn't keep any city. Razed 3 or 4 cities, then sued for peace.
- I then jumped on Tokugawa (protective ), since he was the next nearest. He had built a few cities in the hole left after english cities burnt. One of those sites had iron, and I didn't want to face samurais. Burnt 3 or 4 cities, then sued for peace. No way I could keep any of those cities, + I didn't have a single catapult yet, so I couldn't get the core cities.
- I settled a further city, for another gold, another iron, another cow
- I run for liberalism, but my soso GP farm and my other food poor cities couldn't provide the GSs in time. Wang kong got liberalism in 1180, while I still had more than 10 turns to go.

 

[futurehermit]

I've easily got lib ca. 800AD with 6 cities. Basically, if no AIs are close: build 2 cities, beeline alpha-lit then col. Prebuild 3 settlers. Get GL/NE set up and courthouses. Then build your other 3 cities which were in position and get courthouses up. Use caste system and pacificism in combination with 4 + 2 (from GL) scientists in your science city. This will produce 4-5 scientists. 1 on paper 1-2 on ed, 1 on lib (assuming you tech/trade for the prereqs), 1 pp, 1 chem. Once you have grens (or cav if you go that route) you can explode out, especially if you have prebuilt troops that you can upgrade.