Beserker Rush

[aelf]

Wodan, I admire your tirelessness in arguing this matter I'm afraid you are probably heading back to the not-so-long-ago days of a multi-page debate about the usefulness of Berserks Only, drkodos in this thread = aelf in that thread.

 

[weasel77066]

Oh OK.. I got you now... Im sorry that she annoys me that much. She just does. Of course she's irritating, and demading. Of all heads, hers deserves to roll. Of course she bothers me so much I find her curiously arousing..... (dont tell the wife)

 

[Wodan]

Wodan, I admire your tirelessness in arguing this matter I'm afraid you are probably heading back to the not-so-long-ago days of a multi-page debate about the usefulness of Berserks Only, drkodos in this thread = aelf in that thread.

Nah, I'm about done. Who knows. Maybe I'll try the Berserks again(Once I'm done with the SE vs CE testbed). I'm just afraid I'll be disappointed again. Maybe my expectations are too high.

Wodan

 

[aelf]

I'm just afraid I'll be disappointed again. Maybe my expectations are too high.

I guess it's like a relationship. If you read romantic novels and come into a relationship with expectations set by them, you'd most like be disappointed

Anyway, AFAIK, berserks were effective against relatively small groups of peoples that weren't able to organise themselves into strong defensive forces. Of course a bunch of European peasants at that time would be terrified of the fierce and bloodthirsty berserks, which probably gave rise to their fearsome reputation. Just look at what the primitive skraelings did to the Vikings who landed in the New World. They were fanatical in the defense of their homeland and succeeded in driving the Vikings away.

Translate this to Civ4, Berserks wouldn't be successful at taking walled or large cities with professional or determined defenders. But they would be good excellent against small and less fortified coastal cities, especially if the defenders have inferior weapons. Unfortunately, in Civ4, every civ is very organised so there is not as much chance of encountering weak defenses.

 

[drkodos]

Well, now it stands official that whenever the patch is released, the beserker rush will slow to a trickle and arrive a millenia too late.

I guess it only fitting that their arrival now comes with the speed of a glacier.


The bright side is that the patch has steepened the learning curve again so that now a new strategy need be worked out to make the Beserker mighty again, and that's the fun part of the game.

 

[Wodan]

Yeah, I saw the changes too. They're really cracking down on CS slingshots, which as an ancillary hurts the Berserk.

Whether or not anyone agreed with me before, it's pretty obvious they're going to be a lot weaker now.

I just got a book about Middle Ages critical battles from Barnes & Noble's discount rack (you can find some good stuff there sometimes). The introduction has a whole section where it talks about the Vikings and how they were so successful in post-Carolingian Europe. Mostly, they attributed it to poor organization and lack of effective, unified resistance. When the Vikings did face solid armies, they got their butts whipped.

I guess I'd love to see more of something like the following as an ability for the UU:
-- move 3 when raiding (disembarking into enemy land)
-- halves city defense bonus

Wodan

 

[drkodos]

Yeah, I saw the changes too. They're really cracking down on CS slingshots, which as an ancillary hurts the Berserk.

Whether or not anyone agreed with me before, it's pretty obvious they're going to be a lot weaker now.

I just got a book about Middle Ages critical battles from Barnes & Noble's discount rack (you can find some good stuff there sometimes). The introduction has a whole section where it talks about the Vikings and how they were so successful in post-Carolingian Europe. Mostly, they attributed it to poor organization and lack of effective, unified resistance. When the Vikings did face solid armies, they got their butts whipped.

I guess I'd love to see more of something like the following as an ability for the UU:
-- move 3 when raiding (disembarking into enemy land)
-- halves city defense bonus

Wodan

The other stab wound to the Vikings is that Navigation 2 now needs another promo as a prerequisite. This prevents getting the even extra movement right out of the gate with Lighthouses and barracked coastal ship building ports. One game I got the circum nan bonus with Workboats so I ended up with some Galleys hitting a movement of 5! because of the bonus. Now, its not so doable unti drydocks come along, at which time the beserker is a relic.

So some sea faring prowess has been pruned away as well as preventing people from getting those zerks running in 100 BC.

But, I think the patch is a good thing. I think the CS slinghot is(was) an exploit and I like a lot of the otjer changes they are going to be bringing to the table. In particluar, the Blake AI changes look very promising.

Looks like I will be moving down a level or two in order to get some enjoyment from the game and feel like I am all powerful again.

 

[aelf]

I just got a book about Middle Ages critical battles from Barnes & Noble's discount rack (you can find some good stuff there sometimes). The introduction has a whole section where it talks about the Vikings and how they were so successful in post-Carolingian Europe. Mostly, they attributed it to poor organization and lack of effective, unified resistance. When the Vikings did face solid armies, they got their butts whipped.

See, I was right

 

[abuaftab]

drkodos. What is all this about the patch changing stuff?

 

[drkodos]

drkodos. What is all this about the patch changing stuff?

The new Warlords patch (due out soon) will make changes in gameplay that will appreciably effect the Vikings and make them a bit less powerful. It will no longer be possible to get those Beserkers up so ridiculously soon, and their Navy will be crimped by taking away the Navigation 2 bonus (movement) that they got so easily.

I think the patch changes are good, though. I was one of the few that thought Beserkers were a bit overpowerful (and I guess Firaxis did as well) and although I am sure this new patch will end up creating new inbalance issues, it seems like they are addressing and leveling out a bunch of major inbalances.

 

[abuaftab]

Just read about it. Sounds Mad!

 

[abuaftab]

@Clinton and Weasel

I'm not really 6.