Best and worst Unique Unit?

[*Nosferatu*]

http://www.shaolin-society.co.uk/weapons/fire.php

Well, that explains the collateral damage.

 

[Bain]

Actually, the Battleship / Destroyer thing is a lot more realistic as it is commonplace and easy to update an old ship with modern guided missile systems

I am talking about same tech level here, where all destroyers had were small artillery, which didn't even dent the heavy hull armor of battleships, and torpedos, which required the destroyer to be FAR closer than the battleships maximum artillery range.

- which effectively eliminates the relative size of the ships as modern naval combat takes place over long distances with the opposing sides never actually having visual contact.

Destroyers are avialable very early, these destroyers definatly didn't have guided missiles. These destroyers however can easily sink a battleship in Civ4.
I am not talking about modern naval warfare with Harpoons, but artillery&torpedo fights that happened during the world wars.

First hit wins in most scenarios, regardless of size (hence the reason that battleships have in the most disappeared from naval forces).

The reason battleships disappeared are the fact that regular ship artillery became outdated compared to heavy missiles. These guns were too large, took too long to destroy something and were far too inaccurate compared to these missiles. The battleship platform was no longer required as these missiles fit nicely on destroyers or even corvettes, the battleships simply became far too expensive.
I am quite sure that a heavily armored battleship could EASILY survive multiple hits still. These ships are incredibly hard to sink, even if you get a hole into the hull below water line.

so "First hit wins" is true - but only one way.
A well placed hit with a 15" or 16" gun could tear an unarmored destroyer apart.
A 5" destroyer artillery hit anywhere on the battleship could be ignored, as it couldn't penetrate the armor.
A torpedo (which can also be evaded, unlike artillery fire) would slow a battleship down and cause damage that can only be repaired in a drydock. However, it would take far more than a torpedo hit to sink a battleship

 

[starbolt]

The strongest UU is easily the fast worker. Get your chops & mines in 1/3 the time by walking into the forest.

As the only UU that is never obsoleted, this can be the only correct choice.

---

Among the military choices (the rest of them), I'm fond of the Skirmisher and the Keshik. Since you stay in the early eras longer than any other, I favor units that bridge these eras without being obsoleted quickly.

The Skirmisher only requires 2 techs to achieve and can be dominant for rushing and defense throughout its lifetime. It also upgrades to Xbowmen/Longbowmen in a pinch, but the upgrades aren't so big that you lose a lot by skipping this upgrade and going straight to riflemen.

The Keshik is pretty much the pinnacle of early era warfare, absolutely forcing production of spearmen and crushing cultures who do not deploy them early.

I'm partial to Redcoats because every melee/archer unit upgrades to them and they pretty much overmatch even grenadiers, particularly since they carry over your early era upgrades. The only real knock here is that the military tech advances fairly quickly here and riflemen quickly give way to infantry, marines, and mech inf.

I can't agree with Panzers being best, because I don't find tanks to be that big a deal. They are just too easily countered with Flight and/or Robotics and these technologies will make even your leftover riflemen/cavalry effective.

---

Obsolescence is the enemy and that's why the Fast Worker is king.

 

[starbolt]

First hit wins in most scenarios, regardless of size (hence the reason that battleships have in the most disappeared from naval forces).

Actually, the carrier is why battleships have vanished. WWII demonstrated that airpower and air intelligence was superior to virtually random barrage shelling. Rocketry was simply the nail in the coffin.

 

[morss_4]

Chops in 1/3 time with the fast worker? You do know it doesn't acually work faster right?

On epic it takes 4 turns to chop a forrest. Add the turn to move onto it that's 5. The fast worker does it in 4. That's 4/5 the time.

In other words, not a big deal. Honestly later in the game I can't even tell the difference between the fast work and the normal worker.

I've never had a problem keeping up with my tile improvements. The fast worker just isn't all that great.

My vote goes to the praetorian as the best, and either the Jaguar or the fast worker as the worst.

 

[Efexeye]

Fast worker is the WORST? It's the only unit that remains viable/retains its' worth for the whole game! It may not be the BEST, but it is CERTAINLY not the worst.

 

[morss_4]

It's also the only unit which is absolutely no help in combat.

Which makes it the worst.

 

[Efexeye]

It's also the only unit which is absolutely no help in combat.

Which makes it the worst.

You're forgetting that not everyone is a warmonger....the fast worker helps Builders greatly.

 

[morss_4]

No it doesn't!

I'm a builder, but the thing doesn't help you build! It's a minor convience in the early going, when you have few roads, but by about the middle ages it's virtually indistinguishable from a normal worker.

All the other UU's have the ability to greatly help you expand or defend your empire, the fast worker cuts a turn off chops and mines.

 

[Efexeye]

That one extra turn, over the course of the game and thousands of improvements, is quite meaningful...

 

[morss_4]

No, it's not.

Playing as a non-Indian civ I NEVER have much trouble keeping enough improved tiles around once you get past the very early stages of the game.

So what is the fast worker doing for me? Helping me get one more turn out of a mine that my city won't be using for another 20 turns?

 

[Efexeye]

Okay, buddy, you're right.

However, may I ask why you are building a mine that you won't be using for 20 turns? This "strategy" suggests that you don't really know how to optimally use your workers...

 

[morss_4]

Look all I know is I've never played a game where I've said to myself...

"Gee, York has almost no tile improvements. That city would be so much more productive if I just had the fast worker."

If the extra turn is that big a deal then just build a couple extra workers in your non-Indian civ.

Even the Jaguar, in comparison, can be great in an early game rush attack.

EDIT: I'm building that mine because all the tile improvements my city needs now are already built. If you've got as many workers as cities, you're probably going to be building tile improvements faster than your population is growing.

 

[HeXeD_3010]

Conquistadors are damn nice. I challenge anyone to pick spain, get conquistadors before anyone else gets knights, and go cause hell. They are basically knights with 50% to melee. I've had people waste stacks of 15 axemen and 10 horse archers on 5 conquistadors... very powerful if you can put up with playing spain until guilds.

 

[HeXeD_3010]

Look all I know is I've never played a game where I've said to myself...

"Gee, York has almost no tile improvements. That city would be so much more productive if I just had the fast worker."

If the extra turn is that big a deal then just build a couple extra workers in your non-Indian civ.

Even the Jaguar, in comparison, can be great in an early game rush attack.

EDIT: I'm building that mine because all the tile improvements my city needs now are already built. If you've got as many workers as cities, you're probably going to be building tile improvements faster than your population is growing.

Moses, I'm going out on a limb here and stating that you probably never play MP, or duel MP because you wouldn't say that about Gandhi's axeman chop.

 

[morss_4]

Uh, my name's not moses.

And no, I don't play mp.

Other civ's can chop too. Ghandi's edge at that is rather small.

 

[Efexeye]

Well, plus, he's discounting that it's the only UU that is guaranteed not to be obsolete by the time the game is over...

 

[morss_4]

I'm not discounting it.

Besides, I would argue it is obsolete at the games end. Typically by the end of my games my workers are all sitting around twiddling their thumbs. They usually finish up all my tile improvements well before railroad, and then after a quick bit of RR building they're pretty much done for the game.

 

[Efexeye]

Sounds to me like you automate your workers, which is a red flag right there...

 

[morss_4]

No, I don't.

There's only so much work for them to do man. 20 tiles per city, less if you've got overlap.