thebignastyone
Clandestine
Military all the way. The game tells us to make as much military as possible. The easiest way to win is conquest, not to mention the most fun.
Best Civilization Attribute
- Thread starter Beanzy
- Start date
Tibetian Monk
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9
Industrious is #1
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Originally posted by tao
Just look at the culture statistics:Science wins 7:5!
- temple:2 - library:3
- cathedral:3 - university:4
Well that depends on your playing style. Like Shabbaman pointed out, the temples will very quickly double in culture, bringing to a 7:7 ratio. But then the libraries will double so science will pull ahead again 10:7. But then cathedrals will double bringing it to a 10:10 tie again. But then the universities will double in culture pulling science ahead again.
You could also take a look at how many shields you are saving. Religious saves 110 shields (30 shields-temple, 80-cathedral). Scientific saves 140 shields, 240 shields if you count the research lab (40-library, 100-university, 100-research lab). Militaristic can save up to 270 shields if you build EVERY improvement and have PTW (10-walls, 20-barracks, 20-coastal fortress, 40-harbor, 80-Airport, 40-SAM missle defense, 60-civil defense).
But many cities will not build all the military improvements. If going with 0% research, the libraries won't help, getting cheap temples so early in the game (when your cities are so small as it is) is very helpful because the happiness will let your cities grow larger to produce even more. Some improvements come so late in the game. Religious also has the '1 turn anarchy' so it can easily switch between governments. There are so many variables it mainly comes down to play style and preference.
I voted industrious. Religious would be second, IMO. Although my last deity game Scientific did come in handy because of the free tech that I sold to bankrupt all the other AI, I think religious is better overall and give you a more solid empire because it helps you so early in the game. Having fast workers is awesome. You won't need to build as many workers. Not needing as many workers will not only will save you gold for upkeep (in republic or democracy), but also the population points and shields spent building the workers. Note:You still want lots of workers though, to make sure all your citizens are working improved tiles.
Bismarck
The Iron Chancellor
Militaristic vs. Scientific might depend on your play style, that's true. And expansionist greatly depends on the size of your map, and whether it's pangaea or not.
Industrious, on the other hand, rules -- regardless of what your style is.
Industrious, on the other hand, rules -- regardless of what your style is.
Gregski
Mostly Harmless
My list:
Religious
Industrious
Scientific
Militaristic
Commercial
Expansionist
Religious
Industrious
Scientific
Militaristic
Commercial
Expansionist
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
I started a game on saturday as the Arabs: expansionist/religious on a large map. I got a settler and two techs within my first 10 turns. Then in a totally unprecidented event (for me) I got my first city from a hut in PTW! actually my first in any civ3 patch. Later I poped another city, two in one game! I also got two more techs. I was able to get 14 cities from peaceful expansion, even with the persians and Ottomans starting quite close to me. Coming so early in the game this was a huge boost to me and also allowed me to get 3 lux resources.
I stand by my initial opinion, all of the attributes are good. It simply depends on how the game plays out.
I stand by my initial opinion, all of the attributes are good. It simply depends on how the game plays out.
Especially when you are playing over the internet! I was the Iriqouis in a one on one game, cause i was going for a horde of Mounted Warriors and winning before we got out of the ancient age. Turns out that didnt work because he had the same idea and he was the Greeks so he kept on pillaging which really hurt my game.
farting bob
ThEy MaDe Me Do iT.
industious sits every playing style.all theothers depend on what you want to achieve ie: more culture, better wars etc.
but everybody can do better ifthey have industrous. build quicker and more shields later on really helps.
expansion is good to get an early lead, but by industrious it is effectivily useless.
science isn't major, 1 free tech per era, when there are 20 + techs per era you can gain back that extra 1 by having a few more uni's in your cities, or any science wonder
militaristic is good,but only if you want to fight many wars. if your going to wait until modern era before getting ready to get rid of your opponents it's not a huge advantage, butif you fight, especially in ancient, it can be valuable.
religious is good for keeping your citizens happier without raising lux spending, and good for fighting modern wars, with switching governments to find out which one gives you bst advantage.
comerce is beter on large maps, where you will have more cities further away,but on tiny, small or standard if you've got alot of civs as well, it will only save you a few GPT. i tend not to go for this one, as i make alot of money once i hit democracy normally anyway, so half the time it wont make the difference between bankcrupt or rolling in it.
but everybody can do better ifthey have industrous. build quicker and more shields later on really helps.
expansion is good to get an early lead, but by industrious it is effectivily useless.
science isn't major, 1 free tech per era, when there are 20 + techs per era you can gain back that extra 1 by having a few more uni's in your cities, or any science wonder
militaristic is good,but only if you want to fight many wars. if your going to wait until modern era before getting ready to get rid of your opponents it's not a huge advantage, butif you fight, especially in ancient, it can be valuable.
religious is good for keeping your citizens happier without raising lux spending, and good for fighting modern wars, with switching governments to find out which one gives you bst advantage.
comerce is beter on large maps, where you will have more cities further away,but on tiny, small or standard if you've got alot of civs as well, it will only save you a few GPT. i tend not to go for this one, as i make alot of money once i hit democracy normally anyway, so half the time it wont make the difference between bankcrupt or rolling in it.
I voted scientific. In addition to the cultural debate above, I will add that three free techs is not peanuts, especially when one of them is Nationalism, which the AI will pay through the nose for.
Even as a scientific civ, I will take the back seat in technology until the mid-late Middle Ages, and instead buy/trade techs. After that I can usually outpace the AI once my universities come online.
ps. This is in Monarch; I haven't tried Emperor or Diety, so I will probably have to change tactics for those.
Even as a scientific civ, I will take the back seat in technology until the mid-late Middle Ages, and instead buy/trade techs. After that I can usually outpace the AI once my universities come online.
ps. This is in Monarch; I haven't tried Emperor or Diety, so I will probably have to change tactics for those.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Sim_One, Unfortunately my dictionary does not have either word, so I can't further explain.
It depends on how you phrase the sentence.
"He is an expansionist".
"They are an expansionistic country".
Kind of like militant and militaristic.
"He is a militant".
"He belongs to a militaristic organization".
It depends on how you phrase the sentence.
"He is an expansionist".
"They are an expansionistic country".
Kind of like militant and militaristic.
"He is a militant".
"He belongs to a militaristic organization".
andrewgprv
Second Class Citizen
My List
1-Commercial
2- Industrious - Religous (Tie)
3- Scientific
4- Expansionist
5- Militeristic
1-Commercial
2- Industrious - Religous (Tie)
3- Scientific
4- Expansionist
5- Militeristic
If you are playing the OCC the scientific attribute is a must.
The one free tech with each new age makes it possible to keep up in techs.
On a Pangea map expansionist gives an excellent start, 3 scouts will give you most of the ancient era techs, contacts with all the other civs, gold, a couple of warriors, maybe a settler, and a valuable map to trade.
If I want an easier OCC I go for Scientific/Expansionist on pangea (I use settlers to boost my city pop).
Even if I plan to conquer the world I don't build many barracks
(one exception aztecs in the early game) and when playing a non-militartistic civ I always seem to get lots of leaders. So I would rate the Militeristic attribute the most useless.
The one free tech with each new age makes it possible to keep up in techs.
On a Pangea map expansionist gives an excellent start, 3 scouts will give you most of the ancient era techs, contacts with all the other civs, gold, a couple of warriors, maybe a settler, and a valuable map to trade.
If I want an easier OCC I go for Scientific/Expansionist on pangea (I use settlers to boost my city pop).
Even if I plan to conquer the world I don't build many barracks
(one exception aztecs in the early game) and when playing a non-militartistic civ I always seem to get lots of leaders. So I would rate the Militeristic attribute the most useless.
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
Re Scyphax: If one can set up a nice barbarian farm to get promotions, then I agree that militeristic is probably the worst (just due to this semi-exploit). Otherwise I dissagree, unless you have sold your soul to the RNG (as LtKiller might have judging by his success at getting leaders vs. mine in his SG K7 that I am playing in). Twice as likely promotions and cheap 'racks are great. In a typical game (non-militaristic) I get a couple of leaders (before modern times), with Militaristic its about twice that, usually more because I am more likely to use my first or second one for an army and build the Heroic Epic - assuming I will get more leaders.
Re Bamspeedy and Sim_one: The difference is that while expansionist can be used both ways expansionistic is exclusively an adj. This is the same as for militarist and militaristic, which you will find in most dictionaries. Typically if you are using these words as adjectives you use the '-tic' form as Bamspeedy suggests.
Expansionist, n. (and a.) One who advocates a policy or a theory of expansion, esp. an advocate of expansion of the currency, or of territorial expansion;
Militarist, n. and a.: A. n. A soldier, warrior; one who studies military science; one dominated by military ideas; B. adj. = MILITARISTIC a.
Re Bamspeedy and Sim_one: The difference is that while expansionist can be used both ways expansionistic is exclusively an adj. This is the same as for militarist and militaristic, which you will find in most dictionaries. Typically if you are using these words as adjectives you use the '-tic' form as Bamspeedy suggests.
Expansionist, n. (and a.) One who advocates a policy or a theory of expansion, esp. an advocate of expansion of the currency, or of territorial expansion;
Militarist, n. and a.: A. n. A soldier, warrior; one who studies military science; one dominated by military ideas; B. adj. = MILITARISTIC a.
pterrok
Warlord
Don't forget that the Religious civs can use that trait as an OFFENSIVE weapon against non-religious civs in the latter stages when you're all Democracies...Get them in a protracted war and DON'T negotiate a peace...when you both fall into anarchy, you come right back out and go into Monarchy but they will lose 6 or 7 turns with NO production!
On the flip side, when I DON'T have a religious civ, long wars are always a nail-biting affair--every turn press F11 to see what your popularity rating is and keep upping the Happiness slider to try and stave off anarchy...
The trait that seems the least useful to me is expansionistic--I can work to the strength of all the others but if I don't find a lot of Goody Huts, getting the map knowledge may not do me much good past a couple of trades of it.
On the flip side, when I DON'T have a religious civ, long wars are always a nail-biting affair--every turn press F11 to see what your popularity rating is and keep upping the Happiness slider to try and stave off anarchy...
The trait that seems the least useful to me is expansionistic--I can work to the strength of all the others but if I don't find a lot of Goody Huts, getting the map knowledge may not do me much good past a couple of trades of it.
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