Best Game Speed

[jdc0331]

I'm just getting started with C2C after coming back to Civ 4 recently. I've seen a few conflicting views so I wanted to ask here: what is the optimal game speed to play C2C?

 

[JosEPh_II]

There is no "optimal GS", all are playable it's just how long of a game do you want?

Since you just came back to Civ IV I would suggest Epic as it is 2000 turns.

Here are the Caveman2Cosmos GS in ~ number of turns:
Normal ~1000 turns
Epic ~ 2000 turn
Marathon 3335 turns
Snail ~5000+
Eon ~6500
Eternity 8250

Oh and we do Not suggest playing with more than 20 AI if you use any Game set up Option that will create more AI.

Nor do we suggest using any Map size larger than Giant. (yes we offer gigantic but you better have a very fast cpu, 3.x Ghz) The game is a single core 32 bit engine and will never use more than 3.0 GB of memory. So CPU speed is more important.

 

[jdc0331]

There is no "optimal GS", all are playable it's just how long of a game do you want?

Since you just came back to Civ IV I would suggest Epic as it is 2000 turns.

Here are the Caveman2Cosmos GS in ~ number of turns:
Normal ~1000 turns
Epic ~ 2000 turn
Marathon 3335 turns
Snail ~5000+
Eon ~6500
Eternity 8250

Oh and we do Not suggest playing with more than 20 AI if you use any Game set up Option that will create more AI.

Thanks for the reply. Are there any other settings the team recommends for optimal enjoyment? Specifically things that would reduce micro-management (never my favorite part of an civ game)

 

[JosEPh_II]

If Micro management is your bane then here's what I would suggest:
1. use Normal or Epic GS
2. use C2C_World map size Standard or large, start everywhere, medium sea level
3. No more than 6-7 AI
4. Do Not use Rev or any Option that generates More AI ( Like barb Civ)
5. Do not use any Size Matters Options ( very micro intense with units)
6. Use Reckless Animals, but with No Stay out (Off) and No Peace among NPC's
7. Use Only the Positive leader traits. No other leader trait Options. This gives every Leader only 2 Traits.
8. Use 1 City Tile start with Realistic Culture Spread
9. Use the Basic BtS Combat option, plus do not use Realistic Siege.
10. Don't use the "beta" Afflictions Option
11. Do not use Divine Prophets.

This should keep the game within the realm of what you might be used to from vanilla BtS and keep the micro down somewhat.

Please remember you are playing the largest Mod ever made for Any Civ version from 1 thru VI. So there will be some micro involved.

 

[jdc0331]

If Micro management is your bane then here's what I would suggest:
1. use Normal or Epic GS
2. use C2C_World map size Standard or large, start everywhere, medium sea level
3. No more than 6-7 AI
4. Do Not use Rev or any Option that generates More AI ( Like barb Civ)
5. Do not use any Size Matters Options ( very micro intense with units)
6. Use Reckless Animals, but with No Stay out (Off) and No Peace among NPC's
7. Use Only the Positive leader traits. No other leader trait Options. This gives every Leader only 2 Traits.
8. Use 1 City Tile start with Realistic Culture Spread
9. Use the Basic BtS Combat option, plus do not use Realistic Siege.
10. Don't use the "beta" Afflictions Option
11. Do not use Divine Prophets.

This should keep the game within the realm of what you might be used to from vanilla BtS and keep the micro down somewhat.

Please remember you are playing the largest Mod ever made for Any Civ version from 1 thru VI. So there will be some micro involved.

Thanks. If I may ask, what is the reasoning behind getting rid of the revolution and barbarian civ options? I've played other modpacks that include RevDCM and I found I quite liked those options. Added something I felt was lacking from every other civ game. Otherwise your suggestions definitely make a lot of sense.

 

[raxo2222]

Thanks. If I may ask, what is the reasoning behind getting rid of the revolution and barbarian civ options? I've played other modpacks that include RevDCM and I found I quite liked those options. Added something I felt was lacking from every other civ game. Otherwise your suggestions definitely make a lot of sense.

Revolutions doesn't do anything except of buffing crime.
AI is weaker here than in unmodded BTS.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Revolutions doesn't do anything except of buffing crime.
AI is weaker here than in unmodded BTS.

A rather simplistic reply at best.

C2C has went beyond Rev is more like it. Plus the version of Rev in C2C is "old" as well. We did do some updates when LoR was actively being updated. But we actually had Late Rev Modders castigate us for having it in C2C at all.

Disagree with the AI is weaker here than in Basic BtS. You are comparing a miniature simplistic AI that is the basis of BtS verses a much much more complex AI in C2C. Plus an AI that is still being worked on and not :set in stone" for it's actions. In fact the AIs for BtS and C2C should Not even be compared.

 

[jdc0331]

Thanks. Are there any downsides to keeping those options enabled?

 

[tmv]

Thanks. Are there any downsides to keeping those options enabled?

You get more civs during the game (and lose control over the number of civs). This leads to more RAM being needed and before long you reach the "magical" barrier (aroung 2.7 GB) where the 32bit engine surrenders and you get a CTD.

Please keep in mind that this is a very big mod, and is still 32bit, so it cannot address more RAM.

Edit: If you absolutely have to use these options, viewports are your friend, but then you even have to micromanage which part of the map you are working with (only a part of the map gets loaded into RAM, including the minimap - this is called the viewport) and you can change the viewport via the military advisor which is pretty much the only place where you can see the whole map, but without details. I would not recommend this until you are fairly familiar with the mod.

 

[Enchanteur]

My answer is : not slower than Snail, and not quicker than Marathon.
So play it at Marathon or Snail speed. I tried both.
If you don't want to think about that, just choose Marathon. I think it's optimal.

 

[tmv]

only a part of the map gets loaded into RAM, including the minimap - this is called the viewport

To clarify: The viewport is the part of the map that is loaded, not the minimap. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[JosEPh_II]

My answer is : not slower than Snail, and not quicker than Marathon.
So play it at Marathon or Snail speed. I tried both.
If you don't want to think about that, just choose Marathon. I think it's optimal.

Did you try the others?

I base mine off of actual playtesting all GS as That Is part of my reason for being on the Mod Team. Balanced game play can be had from Normal to Snail. The balance gets thrown off by the 2 longest GS, Eons and Eternity.

Many players forget that a Normal GS with vanilla BtS is only 500 turns, here it is 1000. That Marathon on vanilla BtS is 750 turns, here it is 3350+ turns.

So the question becomes this, how much micromanagement do you want mid to late game? And there is also this reminder, almost No One ever goes beyond 4000 turns because the game is already won before that. And the Only ones who do get past that 4000 turns are the one who want to see all the New shiny toys in the New late Game Eras.

My original points and suggestions for jdc0331 are still valid with experience behind them.

 

[Enchanteur]

I tried Epic and technologys was too fast to get, so I didnt tried Normal.
And I tried Eon and it was too slow, so I didnt tried Eternity.
Snail was a good speed, but after begin again the game x times, I finaly choosed Marathon as favorite game speed.
It need to be very careful with map size and others settings. Because with wrong choices, end turn can be very long (I reached 10 seconds waiting with a big map). I readed all about options some months ago and tried to find everything that can slow down the game.
It could be a nice idea of topic here : doing a list of all options making the game slower. With a reminder of what do the option. As I unactivate "great commanders" because of that. Be maybe I should put back this option ON if it's a nice option (I dont remember what it do for now, I need to play again, so I will do the new install just now).

 

[JosEPh_II]

Because with wrong choices, end turn can be very long (I reached 10 seconds waiting with a big map).

Choices really have little to do with 10 seconds waiting for end of turn processing. Civ IV BtS engine for the game is 32bit single core. And a 10 sec wait is excellent. If you expect faster you are playing the wrong game. This Is a Turn based game not an pauseable RtS. As the game gets more developed the more processing the single core will need to do at 32bit speed. CPU speed Is a critical factor to turn processing as is good motherboard bus speed and your main ram speed. More ram is Not an answer for this game as it will never use more than 3GB.

You can realistically expect 1 minute end if turn waits by the time you get to Industrial Era If your game has more than 12 AI in it.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

C2C is a bit like OTTD and Dwarf Fortress in the way eventually you'll lose to the game not being able to run properly any more

 

[Enchanteur]

Damn, you killed my motivation to play.
I can't wait 1 minute at the end of a turn. It's insane.
It's turn by turn ok, but you are supposed to play your next turn after a click on "end turn".

 

[Noriad2]

1 minute turn time only happens in the later stages of the game. By that time there is plenty to do during a turn. Ever heard of "sitting is the new junk food"? Go take a short walk around your house during end of turn in the later stages of the game. I do.

 

[Faustmouse]

Once I tried doing 10 Push-ups every turn waiting time. I ended up with 1000 Push-ups over the course of the day and sore muscles over the next days.

 

[raxo2222]

I was browsing internet when waiting between (around one minute) turns in later eras during my space playtrough.
But you need windowed mode to do so.
When I disabled storm spawning (BUG option) my turn times on start of game on my space map dropped from around 10 secs to 3 secs
Also you can try "minimize AI Turn Times" BUG option, but that will make game unrensposive during turns.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

There's a reason I got my book next to my PC,
also there's nothing really you could do during the end of turn, so Minimizing AI turn Times is a good idea anyway