Best late game oriented civilizations

[Dark Paladin X]

Of obtaining each of the victory conditions, which civilization would be considered to be the best late game civilization for each victory condition (I'm doing this for the Civilization TV Tropes page because they actually have a trope called "Magikarp Power" (it basically means a character or civilization that has a terrible early game, but excels in late-game dominance).

Of all the civilizations, which Civilizations start with terrible early games but has the best late game power for the said victory condition (either through UA, UB, UU, or Unique Tile Improvements, and I'm not counting time/score as a victory condition).

For each one of them:

Diplomatic: Hands down, Venice is THE best civilization late game for this victory condition. Why? Because of their unique Merchant of Venice allows you to "deny" Civilizations potential votes for the United Nations vote. China being ally dandy with Singapore, not a problem "buys city-state." What's even better, you don't suffer diplomatic penalties for doing this. However, their early-game is considered to be the weakest due to their lack of ability to expand their borders and limited to one-city and can easily be conquered by hostile AI like the Zulus, Huns, or the Greeks.

Cultural: I'd say either the Indians or the Brazilians. Both have unique ability and start bias respectfully that severely handicap them early game . India's UA pressures players to build few number of cities, but well-developed highly populated cities. Since most of your cities won't be that highly populated, India is vulnerable early-game. However, once late game comes, their cities to be one of the best defended and a cultural powerhouse. This is true when Gandhi AI starts building nuclear weapons.

Similarly, Brazil's jungle start bias puts them in a severe disadvantage on productions and makes building wonders particularly difficult for them. Once they get around mid-game and research Machinery, they can obtain Brazilwood camp, which is free income for the Brazilians and allows the Brazilians to simply buy the tile improvements and buildings while their cities focus on building units/wonders. Also, their UA kicks ass.

Science: This is the most difficult call for me, since I never actually tried this victory condition before. From the looks of things, I'll say Korea here due it's unique ability (if you are building a lot of Wonders for science boost, you definitely do not want to build a lot of cities).

Domination: Honestly, don't try this victory condition late game. The penalties against you are more severe late game if you are aiming for this victory in terms of diplomacy, gold, and happiness (since diplomacy has higher value late game than early game). Besides, I really can't think of a civilization best suited for late game Domination victory.

Also, I'm trying of a "One Stat to Rule Them All" for this game and put it as an example in the Civilization TV Tropes page. My guts is science and food has the highest stat value, but I can't choose between the two.

 

[redwings1340]

Domination: I think the Zulu are pretty good for late game domination. Even without total war, they can train air repair planes with just a military academy. With increased ideology happiness policies, you can quite easily conquer and still have a good late game empire with autocracy or order. Persia could be an interesting late game power if you have a lot of golden ages, and Rome could be an interesting choice for this (as your conquered cities will be able to get lots of buildings faster). Also, I feel like if you take the right religious beliefs, Byzantium could also be an interesting choice for this if you could get a ton of faith, and buy religious buildings to offset happiness issues that come from mass conquest.

Diplomatic: Portugal is another interesting choice here. Their abilities come to start at the renaissance era, but beginning with astronomy, they can transform from a struggling empire to a massive empire that can buy everything in their cities while not running budget deficits and keeping their happiness high. Then you can buy the city states later in the game after your cities are fully set up.

 

[ahawk]

My preferences:

Diplomatic: Venice, Greece, Sweden (gift those faith-bought Great People and the Great Generals from wars!), or Siam

Scientific: Korea, Aztecs (the ability of the Aztecs to have monstrously tall cities by the end of the game helps greatly, assuming you got the Floating Gardens up in most of your settled cities)

Cultural: Brazil, Polynesia

Domination: Zulu, China (Dbl-Attack Machine Guns with a bunch of promos on them is amazing) Korea, Aztecs, and anyone else who techs very quickly (because X-Coms are now the easiest way to snipe capitals in the late game, and getting to them first by even an average margin means you can basically spam them and still get the upper hand).

 

[z284pwr]

My preferences:

Diplomatic: Venice, Greece, Sweden (gift those faith-bought Great People and the Great Generals from wars!), or Siam

Scientific: Korea, Aztecs (the ability of the Aztecs to have monstrously tall cities by the end of the game helps greatly, assuming you got the Floating Gardens up in most of your settled cities)

Cultural: Brazil, Polynesia

Domination: Zulu, China (Dbl-Attack Machine Guns with a bunch of promos on them is amazing) Korea, Aztecs, and anyone else who techs very quickly (because X-Coms are now the easiest way to snipe capitals in the late game, and getting to them first by even an average margin means you can basically spam them and still get the upper hand).

This sounds pretty close to what I would pick as well. Greece and Siam are awesome with City-States. Siam can get some giant cities from the Bonuses so they could even fall into Scientific really. 4-5 big cities more than makes up for the % per city lost from tech.

China Dbl-Attack Machine Guns upgraded to Bazooka, even better. Logistics + Range Bazooka would be just nasty with that 85 Strength.

 

[isau]

The thing about Diplo victory is there doesn't really have to be a lot of lead up to it. Unlike the other victories you could ignore it most of the game and then grab it very late. It's kind of unfortunate, actually. I wish that Diplo votes were based on who was allied with a city state longest not who has control right now. Or at least weighted more heavily toward long-term relationships instead of immediate cash buys.

As for who is best at it, I'd concur with Venice just because you can eliminate the competition. But anyone who can generate a lot of cash late game can grab Diplo pretty easily IMO.

I personally don't really find Sweden that great at diplo victory. The great person gift special is okay early on when generating the cash for alliances is more difficult. Late in the game 90 influence is worth around 1,200 gold. It helps but I can think of better uses for Great People. Maybe I am missing out on a strategy though.

For Domination, map depending, I'd give England props. I mostly play Small Continents and Elizabeth is a terror if left unchecked. Between the Longbows and the fast moving ships, England has huge range that makes it easy to grab and defend territory in situations where the opponent can't really fight back or work their way into territory. England doesn't really have anything special going for it at all early on though.

 

[Vohbo]

Domination in BNW is almost always late game. My conquest typically starts at Frigates or Great War Bombers and that is absolutely fine, you should have both the time, happiness and economy to deal with anything at that point.
Very good for late game Domination are any civ that gets a movement bonus on cavalry or tanks, and civs with easy access to extra happiness (such as Poland, Arabia, etc)

 

[jfoytek]

Diplomatic: Venice is definitely the juggernaut of late game diplomatic victory's

Scientific: I am going to throw everyone for a loop on this one! Spain...
In my opinion the best Scientific country is the one that has the most citys everywhere and the wonderful Conquistador is the settler on steroids he moves faster he can cross oceans and basically spain can mass settle all the unexplored area faster which creates a very large city base with creates lots of science!!!


Cultural: Late Game Brazil can be a tourism giant....

Domination: America (B17) or Germany (Panzer)

As for the stat that rules all: Production is the stat I value over all others!!!

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Diplomatic: Hands down, Venice is THE best civilization late game for this victory condition. Why? Because of their unique Merchant of Venice allows you to "deny" Civilizations potential votes for the United Nations vote. China being ally dandy with Singapore, not a problem "buys city-state." What's even better, you don't suffer diplomatic penalties for doing this. However, their early-game is considered to be the weakest due to their lack of ability to expand their borders and limited to one-city and can easily be conquered by hostile AI like the Zulus, Huns, or the Greeks.

Not true at all. Buying City States reduces the number of votes needed to win a diplo victory. If you are referring to the increased influence that a MoV gets when doing a trade mission, and you spam/save them all to the end, maybe... Greece is still the undisputed king of the diplomatic win.

Cultural: I'd say either the Indians or the Brazilians. Both have unique ability and start bias respectfully that severely handicap them early game . India's UA pressures players to build few number of cities, but well-developed highly populated cities. Since most of your cities won't be that highly populated, India is vulnerable early-game. However, once late game comes, their cities to be one of the best defended and a cultural powerhouse. This is true when Gandhi AI starts building nuclear weapons.

Egypt and France need to be here in lieu of the Indians. Wonders are hugely helpful to cultural wins, as are theming bonuses. Brazil is the top dog, though, thanks to those delicious carnivals.

Science: This is the most difficult call for me, since I never actually tried this victory condition before. From the looks of things, I'll say Korea here due it's unique ability (if you are building a lot of Wonders for science boost, you definitely do not want to build a lot of cities).

The only wonders you really want for science are porcelain tower and hubble. Anything else is gravy. You definitely need at least three to four powerhouse science/production cities to win the space race. Space races are won by very wide, very developed civs- put all the science buildings in ten cities and that 5% science penalty doesn't matter.

Domination: Honestly, don't try this victory condition late game. The penalties against you are more severe late game if you are aiming for this victory in terms of diplomacy, gold, and happiness (since diplomacy has higher value late game than early game). Besides, I really can't think of a civilization best suited for late game Domination victory.

Bro, its America. Upgrade those minutement to mobile infantry, and dominate the map with B17s. They're the nastiest late-game-specific civ, hands down.

 

[sock ruh tease]

If we're talking about tough early games/great late games I would have to personally say:

Diplomatic: Venice
Cultural: Brazil
Science: Korea
Domination: Venice

Wait... what?

Bearing in mind that I typically play on King/Emperor, Venetian Domination is totally possible for me late-game. Purchase 2-3 CSes scattered around the world so you can deploy troops where needed. Take Autocracy for Mobilization, the Commerce policy for the reduced gold purchase cost and build Big Ben. While doing this, get trade routes set up and save a load of . Even though Venice will have a lot of money, enough not to worry about reducing costs, arguably by reducing costs you strengthen Venice's main strength even more. And throughout the game, use your money and resources to bribe other civs to go to war with each other, with the hope that they will take other civ capitals. That way you can go to war with fewer overall civs to take all the capitals in the game. When things are ready, build/buy your army in Venice and your various CSes and take all the capitals!

It's hardly a fast victory, but it is possible to win. Just easier to stumble into a Diplomatic victory along the way.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think Persia has a strong end game, but no particular specialization. If you do it right, they have a perma-Golden Age from the Industrial Era on.

 

[Felix953]

Science - Babylon
Domination - China
Diplomatic - Greece
Cultural - Brazil

 

[cpm4001]

Science - Korea. Build tall and you're good to go. The Inca can squeeze in here too, but only if you have lots of Terrace Farms.
Domination - This one's kind of a toss-up, and I can't name any one Civ that's super super good at late-game Domination. America, Sweden, Germany and Brazil are few ones that are okay, but not great. Oh, and Japan, of course, what with their Zero (NOT!)
Diplomatic - Yes, Venice, Arabia, Siam and Sweden are good (as is Greece, of course!), but I'm surprised no one's said Morocco yet. Their UA actually makes it plausible to send trade routes to City-States, and when combined with the "Treaty Organization" tenet in the Freedom ideology that helps big-time when going for a Diplo victory.
Cultural - Hands-down Brazil, though if you've been playing them in exactly the right way either France or Spain can be made to work well too.

 

[bonafide11]

Maybe I need to give Brazil another shot, but for me, France was a much easier cultural victory when I played with them.

To the OP, late game domination is really the only feasible way to do domination now. It's much easier to compensate for warmonger penalties and unhappiness from conquests in the late game than the early game, plus taking cities is so much easier in the late game thanks to the long ranged units and bombers.

 

[eldiablonoche]

Question about using a MoV to puppet a CS (and please correct me if I'm wrong). Isn't that CS's votes removed from the WC once puppeted? Meaning that buying off a CS is more of a spoiler to prevent other peoples' Diplo wins rather than getting Venice more votes to win themselves.

Or is the key to using it wait until Venice has a bunch of existing CS allies already, and buying a non-ally out of the WC math puts them over the edge by reducing the required vote total?

 

[budweiser]

England is good for all. Two spies will make you number 1 in science which is what you want for any victory.

 

[compwiz1202]

Not true at all. Buying City States reduces the number of votes needed to win a diplo victory. If you are referring to the increased influence that a MoV gets when doing a trade mission, and you spam/save them all to the end, maybe... Greece is still the undisputed king of the diplomatic win.

I was just thinking the same thing about Venice. Spam MoV trade missions before the vote then use all the money to reinforce influence even more.

 

[bonafide11]

Venice is great for diplomatic victory not because of the MoV, but because of the amount of trade routes they have and the amount of gold they can easily make per turn.

 

[Bandersnatching]

For late-game culture wins, I'd say Brazil and France are the best, with their Tourism-enhancing UA's and culture UI's.
Domination would probably be America or Germany, though I haven't tried that Victory type in a while.
Science is still Babylon and Korea with a shout-out to Aztecs for their UB.
Diplomacy: I've actually won most of my Diplomacy games as Songhai due to their triple gold on city capture UA; prabably because I nearly always fight a few late game wars and the gold you get from them is absurd.
EDIT: I just read the TV Tropes page, and my god, the Sydney Opera House image apparently has a picture of The Lonely Island on a boat in the bottom corner.

 

[Polisurgist]

Venice is great for diplomatic victory not because of the MoV, but because of the amount of trade routes they have and the amount of gold they can easily make per turn.

Ditto. Being able to nullify an opponent's vote in the WC doesn't actually help Venice win the victory (or at least, it doesn't help win diplo specifically), nor are you able to do it reliably enough to make it happen when you really need.

Trade routes, however.

 

[Vidszhite]

Maybe I need to give Brazil another shot, but for me, France was a much easier cultural victory when I played with them.

To the OP, late game domination is really the only feasible way to do domination now. It's much easier to compensate for warmonger penalties and unhappiness from conquests in the late game than the early game, plus taking cities is so much easier in the late game thanks to the long ranged units and bombers.

Right. Late game wars move so freaking fast that who even cares what diplo penalties you get? You're going to conquer them all anyway.

Also, America is insanely good at domination because their bombers aren't just kinda better, they're way farking better. 50% evasion means immunity to destroyers, triplanes, and AA guns, yes I tested it, not once did an interception succeed, I would just keep on going, I even dodged SAMs half the time. B17s also start with siege I so you only need an armory for air repair. My first war was with France when I had GWBombers. By my third war, all my bombers had full siege and bombardment, logistics, air repair, and one had air targeting. This was on a large map. I conquered a capital every 5 turns, even ran two wars at once.

I was full commerce, so my golden ages were 600gpt. Who needs trade routes with that? My army was so powerful, though, that nobody dared DoW me, and i owned most of the cs, so my trade ships were safe. I lost more trade routes to my own DoWs than to enemy action. I had so many modern armors, I could take capitals without my bombers. 55 uranium, enough for 10 missiles and an army of death robots, had i gotten that far, but modern armor was all i needed. I believe the final stats for military power were me with 100 000, and the rest with around 4000. 2100 GPT from cities before maintenance. Didn't even need maintenance reduction tenets, I could buy a nuke every turn if I wanted.

(in case you need to know, immortal difficulty)