Best settings to bring up my game play?

countjackula

Chieftain
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*Edit short version:
Any suggestions on map settings to help me improve, or general suggestions to help me break out of my builder routine?
How many cities do you successful warmongers build yourself before setting out to rush/wage war and take your neighbors cities? Thanks for your input. Cheers!

Spoiler :
I find it very difficult to get out of my builder mindset. I had some small success in a recent Hippus game pillaging the entire Svartalfar countryside with Magnadine and four war chariots. Movement 5 is amazing! Still, that ended up being more about raiding than being an aggressive conqueror.

When starting a fresh game, even with the best initial aggressive intentions, I get stuck in my habit of building nine core cities in a BFC grid. The AI insists on settling on my border regardless of the land quality, so I usually flip 2-3 cities my way with culture too. I take out/over enemy cities if I have a bad neighbor, but aim to maintain peaceful relations with everyone else, eventually winning by cultural victory. I need to step up my play style.

I don't play multiplayer, but I would like to better my game play enough that I could give it a try and be more than "fodder". I like the PerfectWorld map mod, but haven't used it much for FfH2 because a forest/jungle start in FfH is a bigger setback than it is in vanilla. As such, I've been playing on fractal maps set to large, temperate, medium sea, raging barbarians, AI no building requirements, living world, and normal speed instead. Sometimes, I'll tweak percentages with the FullofResources map mod and play under those same settings, but it's getting too tempting to be lazy and take the easy road, eliminating all bothersome terrain "features".

Any suggestions on changes to map settings to help me improve, or suggestions in general to help me break out of my builder routine? Thanks for your input.
 
Those 2 saves are from the last FfH2 patch so they won't open, but I will look for similar 2032 patch saves from challenge games, etc. Thanks for the search pointer.
 
Sometimes, I'll tweak percentages with the FullofResources map mod and play under those same settings, but it's getting too tempting to be lazy and take the easy road, eliminating all bothersome terrain "features".

If you like Fractals and raging barbs :
_ Decrease the percentage of water of Fractals to 60-65 % and increase the number of players, it produce some very interresting maps with some big inland seas sometimes or a kind of archipelago that circonvulate the globe.
_ Remove the goody huts and replace them with a little more of graveyard.
_ Remove Raging barbs and place more lairs. Some animals at the beginning of the game with some xp (the AI should take advantage of that). And put some barbarian cities with 2-3 archer 10 XP. That's change a lot the barb option.

Tcho !

Edit :Don't take the easy way by removing "all bothersome terrain features", just level down them a little ...
 
doviello, clan of embers and hippus should do the trick... doviello and clan expecially, since they get heaps of units, but little to no building ability. Bannor would work aswell i suppose: switch to crusade the moment you research the neccesary tech, and stay in it for the rest of the game (yes, this means non-stop war from the moment you turn on crusade to your conquest/domination victory). EDIT: sureshot's bannor armageddon scenario is a great means for learning this: No possibility for peaceful expansion, with heaps and heaps of demons coming your way.
 
Thanks all for your suggestions. I tried immortal difficulty today to gain some perspective (fully expecting to be crushed). My best was playing Hippus setting up one city to do nothing but spam horsemen asap. With a good start location and the right resources it seemed easy. The next two attempts were average starts and I was quickly outpaced by the AI. It was expected, and the crushing defeats were still a good learning experience. I did some recommended reading, and had a go as an aggressive Kandros on a normal game with better success. I look forward to trying the armageddon scenario. Thanks again.
 
Quick speed. Pangea. Solid shoreline. Standard size. Small is good for a quick practice game.

Build 2 settlers, when appropriate.

Attack ~turn 150 with tier 4 units (you do not need to trade techs to accomplish this).

Immortal AI will often let you get away with this.

Emperor AI will only interrupt you rarely.

Svartalfar, Ljosalfar, Grigori, Luchuirp, Shaeim, Kuriotates, Malakim, Amurite and Lanun are the easist to accomplish it with imho. With Clan I can get stirrups at ~140, build warrens then and upgrade a couple garrison, but I need a good start and it's a real pain.

These settings will allow you to play many games, all the way to victory (or obvious defeat - as in you don't make it to 150 or don't manage to get tier 4s), because they are only 4-10 hours long + excessive micromanagement and proper diplomacy.
 
Attack ~turn 150 with tier 4 units (you do not need to trade techs to accomplish this).

now i am curious how you accomplish this. I imagine some LB'ing is involved, because there's no way you're going to have enough commerce to pull this off otherwise (save a FF civ like the mazatl, i can reach 500 science/turn on turn 200 normal speed with them, monarch difficulty)
 
Try playing against 30 civs on a standard map (if using PerfectWorld), or a large map with a normal mapscript. Use epic timespeed. The game becomes really cutthroat (because of overlapping borders) and the impact of technological differences become more pronounced (because the AI has longer to exploit technological spreads.)

These settings really take away the ability to research 'nothing-specific' or otherwise diddle away time. Ratchet the difficulty up to Monarch or higher if you're still not having a challenge.
 
@ Demus: Ecofarms settings are turn 150 quick! speed.

Thats comparable to Turn 300 normal speed and thats not all so undoable. (its a bit easier to do at normal but still roughly allright in comparison.)

You have to play much more efficient on Quick though (no stray techs for the fun of it) since each turn counts much more and errors are punished much harder + individual units are even more valuable than usually. Also XP is quite considerably harder to come by and units might obsolete if you are not fast enough at the battlefield with them.

Still a good setting if you really like lots of test games just for improving your skill or for most multiplayers (and don't find fun in longer games with 15+ hours).


@ Topic: Try one of the warmongers like Clan / Infernal or Chardaron of Doviello. (While with Clan and Doviello you cant really build anything buildingwise, Infernals usually have the capacity to build anything you want really fast. Also the big horned one kicks butt. Especially if he comes along early.)


Or perhaps you even try Sheaim where your playstyle is more or less alright since you don't have to build up your military manually besides some Adepts (get most by either summoning it to your disposal or getting spawns from planar gates "for free". :)) and spamming cities is ok as well (the more portals the better. Ironically for them keeping crappy cities is allright even if thematically razing is the most appropriate.). So you dont even have to change your playstyle for them. Just focus on the mage-line with them and you'll be allright.
 
Or more simply -- make the map more crowded. Use a continents map with 12 civs on 3 or 4 continents. You _will_ go to war early in that case, esp. if you start near a hated civ. I played one game with 12 civs on three continents -- but my continent only had two civs -- me (Elohim) and Sheaim.

In another, as Khazad, started adjacent to the Svart, who had to be eliminated early.

NB: I play on lower level (warlord / noble) and on .023.

Another way to ensure there's a fight is to play an all land map like great plains or highlands -- finishing a highlands game as Khazad in which I forgot to get my druids early (which is why I have to play a few levels down) and Perpentech has been a tough opponent -- he founded both FoL and AV and is FoL so there's no Hyb and no Basium.

I tried modifying the earth 18civs game for FFH .023 but the map's too big -- one odd consequence -- I put all the civs in Eurasia/Africa and left America alone and the Americas filled up with Hyb and barbs to an astonishing degree.
 
now i am curious how you accomplish this.

Education -> mysticism -> writing (in the days of the free sage, you could get tier 4s turn 120) ->

Religion (if necessary/desired) ->

(Maybe FoL or OO before writing)

2-3 of the most appropriate/effective economy techs (calander, bronze for chopping, and/or something civ or terrain specific). Not expensive stuff here. The efficient cheap techs. ->

Ether (if mage-based strat and before economy techs if not arcane or charasmatic) ->

Hunting (for hawks and hunter garrison) ->

Appropriate Tier 4 tech.

Whether commune, strength of will, engineering, religious law, righteousness, malevolent, war-horses, etc... your civ synergies should provide the appropriate tier 4 tech around (a little before) turn 150 (quick speed) if you do not have a significant inturruption by a troublesome AI. Note: barbarian civs take longer - aim for a tier 3.5 (UU) with those. As far as I can tell, excepting 15+ city empires (exploiting city-state's cheaterness), Clan and Doviello (with the possible exception of the non-barb leader) never see tier 4 (doviello never sees war machine). I guess these civs are supposed to bully-trade their way there, cause they sure will never tech tier 4 on their own.

The only lightbulbs I use are alteration (very rare - if I have excess sages and am beelining SoW. 99% of the time, another academy is better), arcane lore (a good LB - but tough to time), or engineering and its path (only possible with Luchuirp, really).

The whole lightbulb thing needs to be redone. For luchuirp, it is cheater (engineer gives engineering, which gives an engineer, which gives slums... give me a break!), and for the rest (except for rare timing with an arcane civ - arcane lore) are WORTHLESS. I lightbulb in about 1/30 games when philosophic, and always engineering with Luchuirp's cheater engineers. Early drama is possible with Balseraph (a 'meh' bulb), especially if you get the FoL shrine with the free bard.

One note: Kuriotates and Malakim are naturals (palace mana) for a Tower of Divination - SoW move, but you gotta get those adepts EARLY to have the xp ready when you finish Arcane Lore and Tower (and you must switch to charismatic, not arcane, on turn 70). I can get archmages turn ~125 with Kuriotates (the fastest civ to SoW, thanks to the tower and sprawling, in my testing) - and they get domination from required Tower of Div mana. If you want to take the smooth and steady ride to SoW with Kuriotates, change to arcane on turn 70 and charismatic on turn 140 - that gaurentees some arcane units passively level 6, and 140 is not so much later than 125 (but 15 turns at that point in the game is pretty big). Easiest way: arcane 70, complete tower ~130, charismatic 140.

With Malakim arcanes, I aim for combat 5 pure mages after my first 4 adepts for domination (they still get summon lion without spending a promotion on mana, right?). A last-second adept can take care of blazing for the mages.

Keep in mind... this is aiming for tier 4. If a powerful AI (or, god forbid a player) hits you sooner... pretty much you lose. Don't forget to check the diplomatic advisor often and gift that extra palace mana you are not using at the moment (gifting mana = exploit?). In some ways, it's kind of a combo builder-warmonger strat/style. You are a turtling builder for the 1st 150 turns, then its full-on crunching time until everyone except you is dead or enslaved.

I don't like playing with axemen. I can do that in BTS (no offense to the many pretty cool axemen UUs).



.02


ps. I think the strongest strat in the game is Svartalfar,

education -> mysticism -> FoL -> writing -> Hidden Path *OR* Honor -> Poison / Handling -> Religious Law (turn 120, Chalid + Alazkan = game over) -> Feral (for Baron and Kithra) -> SoW (turn 180) -> Commune (for yvain) -> Animal Mastery -> Precision

Usually I skip getting Chalid and Radiants or Rathas (no Honor), and just go straight to archmages (after Hidden, Poison and maybe handling) that cast domination and summon mists to go with Alazkan, 2 rangers/hunters, 3 assassins at ~150. Rarely Feral before SoW, if I'm under bully-pressure (or really feel like playing with Baron is the right/fun move).

If you go the Honor (Empy) route you're going to need sanitation and math or drama for happiness after Religious Law, if your land/trades are below average. At least, until Chalid dies and you return to FoL and tech Hidden. If Alazkan dies before Chalid, Chalid can resurrect him. If Yvain is still available after Chalid dies, you have a new tier 4 priest for the army (and to resurrect Alazkan if needed).

Which brings us to my advice:

Practice that strat many times - terrain will change build orders and even tech orders sometimes (see "Most Powerful Strat" thread, in strategy forum, for further details), practice many times, then get a nice start and destroy the AI on monarch (as per my settings posted above) and post me in the morning :)

Once you can do it with, what I think is, the strongest civ, doing it with others (appropriate tier 4 tech) will be possible even on immortal with a little civ-specific practice to learn the civ-unique stuff. Immortal requires luck - either a good start, huts, trades, or AI fighting each other... like deity did before .32 (I don't do deity anymore except with extensive options).

Grigori is the most fun, atm. 1 luon, 2-3 chaos twincast spellstaff archmages ~150 ftw. That's the smallest army I can roll an immortal AI 'playnow' with. Pillaging with mists and raider trait, while cash rushing and dominating + Alazkan over anything you like is a close second. Balseraph druids, a real pain, is my 3rd favorite. I despise the melee line (personal taste) and will only subject myself to it for Luchuirp's cheater engineers and Calabim (CR3 paladins/eids). I hear and see (MP) Mimics are way OP, but I'm done with Feral before I worry about Bronze (to arena scouts, not for mimics) as Balseraph (goin for my druids - building radiants while teching Handling, then switch back to FoL and get Hidden). If I liked melee, I would definately play Sureshot's scenario to get proficient with Bannor.

Spoiler :
I can do it, quite easily, with all of the civs I listed in my post above and even with crappy starts (which, of course, take a bit longer). Not that it is anything to brag about, it's just that I've played hundreds of ffh games and dozens MP.


Oh, I almost forgot. The most important setting: this forum as a favorite or homepage. Read everything. I didn't learn all this stuff by myself. Even out-dated information helps (to understand the whys of current mechanics).

pps. In MP PvP, I still usually get my butt kicked by a any good Ladder BTS player who knows almost nothing about ffh (because of city-spam technique, mostly, I think). You cannot city-spam on immortal SP, so I never really got into how powerful it is.
 
Here's the setup I almost always use now:

1) Play Pangea. It's always the most aggressive world to play in.
2) Aggressive civs
3) Last days (makes all the civs more hostile to each other and to you)
4) Double the number of civs on the map (actually this probably benefits you in the long term, but it makes diplomacy more interesting throughout the game)
5) Immortal or Deity (deity if I play with more civs, immortal if I play with fewer civs)
 
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