best traits in the long run

[K.F. Huszár]

anyway, mazzz and osco,
ideas of you both are setting the West on decay - religious and anti-religious fanatism, but both fanatism.
at least let us debate on the GAME here

long live the secular and christian Europe!

 

[Rammstein]

I find industrious to be extremely useful, actually. Combined with multitudes of workers, this is a great trait - you can fill your land with railroads extremely fast if you group workers in threes. i don't think of one trait as better than another, I tend to be more or less interested in some traits. For example, religious is the least interesting trait, commercial the most.

 

[TheTruth]

In the long run I would have to say that commercial, industrious, agriculture.

commercial for the extra gold and together with democracy your army can be huge

industrious for faster workers and for the extra 1 or 2 shields in the main city square after size 12

agriculture, with the 1 extra food at the beginning and coupled with irrigation and railroads on desert squares can make a city that couldn't produce anything fast early in the game, now becomes a power house in growth and shields. Plain and simple the most powerfullest trait from start to finish

 

[Slax]

I've always thought that Commercial got no additional gold until the cities are over size 12 (excluding the added gold from reduced waste). To me that meant no early advantage.

Can someone explain in detail the advantages of the Commercial trait (in C3C)?

 

[Arathorn]

Commercial trait in C3C, as I recall gives:
- 25% bonus to OCN (HUGE for corruption throughout your entire empire -- exact effects are hard to pin down, but effects are incredible -- almost like a courthouse in every city)
- +1 commerce in city square for cities and +2 commerce in city square for metropolises (this benefit is minor at best -- you can see/feel it, but it's pretty small)

Arathorn

 

[mazzz]

osco if you have a problem with my sig then pm me dont spam in the thread

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Arathorn:
On Regent and below, you'll hardly notice the difference regarding corruption, that's why I wouldn't recommend it as a very strong trait to everyone.

 

[Arathorn]

It's been so long since I've played Regent or below (except in some pretty odd variants -- like OCCC AW) that I really don't have a feel. I would still expect that the lower corruption would be significant, even if you don't necessarily notice it -- third ring cities could be almost fully productive, for example.

As for trait values, it greatly depends on difficulty level and map characteristics. Sid, archipelago, I think Expansionist is pretty much guaranteed to not add much. But regent, pangea, Expansionist is an awesome trait that could easily be a game-winner. They all have value and the value can be felt all game, regardless of the trait.

I'd lean towards agricultural, commercial, and industrious in that order as the ones whose effect is most "hidden" and least concentrated, so those might be the ones with the best "long run" effect, in that they are felt subtly every turn but don't give occasional major bonuses. Every trait is valuable, though, IF you know how to use it.

Arathorn

 

[osco]

@OSCO

We should not discuss religion on these forums. I believe that you can find several forums to do that, if you wish.
I also do not believe in any religion, but thake respect for the ones who do.
At least remember these is a forum for discuss C3C...

you must be Confused ?

my post is saying exactly that ... " don't talk religion here "

you are guilty of the same thing you blame me for ?

 

[rcoutme]

Industrious used to be a much more powerful trait than it is now. The workers no longer go twice as fast (only 50% better). Don't forget, however, that cities get an extra shield in the city square and metro's get +2 shields. The only thing about this is that where you place cities is now reversed from any other civs. Usually you would want to place the city square on a place with no shields (since you get one freebie in the city square). With Industrious civs, however, you want to place city squares where you would get shields, since the freebie shield will go against your +1 and +2 bonus.

In other words, an industrious civ gets the following shields in the city square:
1. Tile provides no shields (e.g. regular grassland, flood plain, tundra) Pop 1-6: 1 shield; pop 7-12 1s; pop 13+ 2s
2. Tile provides one shield (e.g. bonus grassland, hill, plains, tundra with furs, etc) Pop 1-6 1s; pop 7-12 2s; pop 13+ 3s

This can be fairly significant, especially in the early game if the city has a fresh water source (it's like having a bonus grass tile mined).

Agricultural has two really nice benefits,
1. Provided that you are next to fresh water you get 1 extra food in the city square. This advantage is actually huge since it means that you can place a city down and have it gain population just as fast as a 'normal' city while using forest for extra production. This extra food is there even if you are on a hill (which usually can not be irrigated).
2. It turns irrigated desert into the equivalent of irrigated plains. This is situational but still hugely important.

For scientific civs (and religious ones) getting the correct tech, i.e. Literature, is critical. Once a library is 1000 years old, its cultural value doubles. If you can build libraries before 800 B.C., you will have huge culture from them. With religious, similarly, if you build temples early, 1000 years later the culture doubles. Since the years 'fly by' early on, getting these improvements (even just a couple) can mean a very large culture boost. Libraries (for those of you who don't remember) give 3 culture per turn, temples give 2 culture per turn. Thus a doubled library gives as much culture as Shakespear's Theatre.

Militaristic both gained and lost in the conversion to C3C. Since all armies now have the blitz ability, getting MGL's, even though they can only rush small wonders, is still a great benefit.

 

[osco]

agriculture + commercial

more food more money

what else matters !

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

If you don't get the Great Pyramids (which is often), Expansionist is actually a really good trait, as all your granaries are half cost.

 

[Pfeffersack]

If you don't get the Great Pyramids (which is often), Expansionist is actually a really good trait, as all your granaries are half cost.

I don't think this is correct - I never experienced cheaper granaries for any trait.Im currently playing Portugese and I'm still paying the regular 60 shields.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Definetly wrong. Granaries are the same cost for all Civs.

 

[Chieftess]

My takes: (in no particular order, except alphabetical)

AGR - Perhaps THE strongest trait in the game! You can trounce the AI on easier levels on monarch and lower by rapidly expanding (only 1 cattle is needed for a settler factory. Imagine a start with TWO cattle! ). It gives you a leg up on the higher levels. It will require a river or lake to be very effective. Plus, the ability to have a +2 food desert after irragation is a great trait for those parched starts.

COM - One of my favorite traits, and perhaps a bit under-rated. The extra reduced corruption, and commerce you get will really start to show itself in the middle ages. It's better in the higher levels when corruption hurts you more.

EXP - Probably the worst trait. True, you don't get barbs from goody huts, which is great on higher levels, but once you've explored everything, its' use stops. The only use a scout might be is as an earlier pillager. Free cities are good - when they're not on the other side of the map. This trait is all but null and void on archipelago maps.

IND - One of my favorite traits. Yes, it's been nullified a bit in C3C, but 2 workers to build a road in 1 turn is great when you're trying to expand ASAP. Being able to build a road quickly to the next city site is vital on higher levels. (This is why AGR/IND is so strong, and why the Maya are usually one of the most successful civs).

MIL - Cheap barracks and quicker promotions. It's good if you're going to war a lot, and want a Great Leader. Maybe it's just my luck with GLs, but I don't think this is a great trait. Build Sun Tzu, and 1/2 the trait is already useless due to free barracks.

REL - Very good trait for higher levels when you want to maintain production, and not want a lenghty anarchy time. It gives cheap temples and cathedrals, but like the Militaristic trait, its' use can be limited.

SCI - It's got a 5% chance for a SGL (I haven't gotten many recently in my games, BTW... but there are times I might get 6 of them.), which makes Scientific a little better, but not great. It's got cheap libraries and universities, so you can get science buildings quicker.

SEA - Increased commerce at sea is another nice trait alongside Commercial on higher levels. More commerce = More science potential. The +1 ship movement is great for finding civs early, especially on archipelago maps. +1 commerce in the city square can make all the difference early on.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

Well, I think the best trait depends on your style of play, ie. Religious is good if you change governments a lot, which I don't, so I don't use the trait. Cheaper temples too, but I've always prefered to build libraries.

Scientific, is very useful for high culture, cos of cheap libraries, but I'm always able to use a few trades, followed by about 60% research to be more advanced than the AI, so I don't really use it.

Militaristic- I've always used my leaders for wonder-building, and once I get Sun Tzus, my army's fine for the rest of the game, really.

Agricultural- I could see how this would be useful, especially since food, unlike everything else, never has corruption, but I can expand easily enough in the Ancient Age, and after that, well military is what matters, not settling. Plus, high population= Civil Disorder, since I don't like building temples.

Seafaring- well, the extra commerce is absolutely USELESS, but my playing style will always have a place for a quick navy (I LOVE navies- even though in practice they're actually fairly useless outside of Ancient and Modern ages), plus cheap harbours are very useful for far-flung islands with serious corruption but good resources.

Expansionist- I always prefer to use my navy to explore, then trade world maps later on, and I never (EVER) build scouts, or have problems with expansion so I never use this trait, especially since I play on 'Pelago and Continental maps, never Pangea.

Industrious- I LOVE THIS TRAIT! The shield bonus isn't much, but the real power is with the workers- mines are 2 TURNS quicker- and that's a lot. That means 50% more mines (well, OK, by the ADs, most people have all their core production mined, but still) , which means, for a while at least, 50% more production (kind of)! This also, of course means you only need to build less workers, which means more population too. All of which add up to make this by far and away my favourite trait.

Since Seafaring and Industrious suit my style best, I (nearly) always play as Carthage.


Oh yeah, while I'm here, does the "build preferences" of each nation mean anything? Carthage's is Naval units and Trade, I think, but I haven't seen any cost differences...

 

[Gogf]

Agricultural is currently my "must have" trait.

 

[Gogf]

(only 1 cattle is needed for a settler factory. Imagine a start with TWO cattle! ).

Like when you got that perfect start testing your VB thing?

 

[~Corsair#01~]

@Gogf- 4450 posts and you still haven't found the "edit" button, I see. Bottom right corner, next to "quote".

 

[Gogf]

@Gogf- 4450 posts and you still haven't found the "edit" button, I see. Bottom right corner, next to "quote".

This, and the post I am quoting is pure spam. Please delete both.

Yes, I know where the edit button is, but I think it is more clear is I quote the post I am talking about.