Best use for Warlord?

[Samson]

I often attach him to a unit so that I can bring a unit up to the XP prerequisite for building the heroic epic, and later, west point.

This is likely to be the primary use I will attack the warlord to units for. As I read it, the requirement has gone up to a unit of 17 exp. points for heroic epic. This is pretty hard to do early on, and since the HE is so big it is going to be worth using a warlord if you have to.

I'd probably only do it to access medic III if I were playing for maximum effect rather than experimenting. Medic III seems to me the most valuable of the special promotions. Nor would it be hard to setup as you can get medic I on a unit with just one battle and then figure out how much xp the GG will need to get two promotions. Stack the appropriate number of units with him.

The extra healing might be worth it for you second or third one. Especially since by this point your armies will have grown in numerical size.

This is what I am likely to give him. The extra 33% (?) healing in enemy teritory is likely to make the most powerfull promotion once you have a reasnoble number of units, esp. against catapults.

Having a unit that will pretty much always take out the first unit in a city stack is huge if you play a conquest focused game.

It would be great if it would "pretty much always take out the first unit in a city stack" but I do not see it is likely to. A decient defender in a hill city will always have a good chance against an equivalent tech attacker. That is why they are so much weaker than armies in Civ 3.

 

[Gherald]

...

Wow, what a pile of crap. I'll just correct an obvious factual error: Regular leaders need 5 experience for their second promotion, and Chm leaders need 4. Barracks only gives 3 now.

 

[Andraeianus I]

One little question that may add an extra argument in this discussion:

Do Military Academies count as a National Wonder?

(sorry no civ Warlords in The Netherlands yet)

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It would be great if it would "pretty much always take out the first unit in a city stack" but I do not see it is likely to. A decient defender in a hill city will always have a good chance against an equivalent tech attacker. That is why they are so much weaker than armies in Civ 3.

That depends on the Number of promotions... which a Warlord will have extra of for two reasons
1= the Exp from joining
2= the Leadership bonus (for more Combat exp) [although it costs a promotion itself]

Once Culture/Walls are down, equivalent tech units ususally only need about one more promotion to take on a fortified city defender...two if it is also on a hill.

 

[Ravellion]

One little question that may add an extra argument in this discussion:

Do Military Academies count as a National Wonder?

(sorry no civ Warlords in The Netherlands yet)

From what I can see, no, they act as research academies.

Rav

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Bingo.

Give that man a Kewpie doll.



Whatever the "math" might indicate long term was not as important as the actual impact they had short term when their use was instrumental in taking out the opponents Capital City, and then getting Capitulation in order to sign a Peace Treaty.

Like all things CIV, I think a person's strategy in combo with what is happening on any given turn could indicate different uses in different scenarios at different times.


I think anytime a game component becomes as cut & dried as the one poster argues, it is indicative, or even full admission, that the game is not that good or complex because it can be "solved" so easily.

It is similar to the debate over Knights vs Bishops in Chess. Sometimes one is better, sometimes the other is. So much depends on terrain, an individual's playing style, and their comfort & skills with each unit. Two good Knights can dominate even superior pieces such as two rooks in closed position, let alone the Bishop pair.


Just sayin.

Nice analogy and may I add that in some openings (e.g. Sicilian Dragon), black often gives one of his rooks up stategically for a white defending kight as a standard strategy, even though this goes against "basic" theory of piece value....as drkodos said, its more than a simple "mathematic formula", its dependent on many more factors and amen to that

 

[Andraeianus I]

From what I can see, no, they act as research academies.

Rav

Ok. Thanks.

Considering the discussion I think I will almost always opt for the extra XP on the long run: military instructor in the city that is. Especially, when you achieve a certain threshold by doing so: barracks + instructor = 5 XP = 2 promotions.

The one big alternative is to add the XP to some (one?) unit immediately in order to get to the threshold for the Heroic Epic and the West Point. But one would think that some of your units would be already pretty close to the HE by the time you get your first Great General. And West Point is too much in future to really consider this. Maybe something for your third great general.

 

[FoolontheHill]

The one big alternative is to add the XP to some (one?) unit immediately in order to get to the threshold for the Heroic Epic and the West Point. But one would think that some of your units would be already pretty close to the HE by the time you get your first Great General. And West Point is too much in future to really consider this. Maybe something for your third great general.

That is what I did with my first one in a test game. I put the Warlord all on one unit and guaranteed that I would be able to build Heroic Epic and West Point early. After seeing what the unit could do though, I put my next two on single units as well and ended up with a mega SOD. Three mega units that were always the latest technology plus a bunch of support units. Lot's o' carnage.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Question, have they changed the amounts of exp needed for different levels of promotions? because it sounds like they have.

 

[meatwad4289]

I'm actually in the middle of the game. I plan on invading Japan and then Russia and forcing captulation.. Russia is already a Vassal, but only thru peace.. Once they bow to me, I'll take Churchill and Bismark next(2 best allies besides my 4 Capulated Vassals)

My Plan is, not to use my warlord yet, but to instead save him ffor his 20 pts thats 20 pts a unit correct? I'm going to build 10 Transports fill the Transports with Infantry, Modern Armor, what ever I have at the time(I don't have transports yet ) I'm going to place the warlord onto a ship and use that 20 point thing.. My first tohught was recall all military or 90%.. But I thought, My Military is to spread out as it is and it would crush my global empire if all my units returned to the capital.. So I figured I'd leave my Strong Defences of on the cities, and build a stronger offense.. the 40 Troops I'm going to send on an offensive strike, should guarentee unequaled power...

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Question, have they changed the amounts of exp needed for different levels of promotions? because it sounds like they have.

Charismatic leaders have a -25% reduction in XP costs for going up in levels. It's a very nice benefit IMO. With it you can level a group of 6 units up to 4th level with 10 XP on barbarians and you only need 3 more xp to get them to 5th level. That means you can have those six units in the stack that you create a warlord in and you get a great payoff as opposed to only being able to do the same to TWO units with a non-charismatic leader.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

But the base amounts haven't changed correct

 

[Randolph]

If I can build the heroic epic once I get him, I often attach him to a unit so that I can bring a unit up to the XP prerequisite for building the heroic epic, and later, west point.

That's a great idea, I don't believe I didn't think of it. IIRC (I'm at work) the level requirements for the heroic epic and west point have increased to five and six respectively, making them really hard to qualify for in a builder-style game. I was thinking that the +2XP was going to be the best for builder defense, but getting access to these national wonders is huge, you’ll still need a little bit of combat or both vassalage and theocracy, but that shouldn’t be a big deal (as long as the “free upgrades” includes not being reduced to 10XP upon upgrading like normal units are, otherwise the civics will be necessary).

On warlords generally, I’m hoping that the significantly higher potential unit level will open up promotion combinations that allow for whole different uses for a unit type. For example a mounted unit with +1 movement, blitz, heal on the move, and several combat promotions could really dominate the field, or a longbow with city garrison 3, gorilla 2, and drill 4 could make newly captured cities essentially immune to counter attack, and stacks extremely safe on hills (hopefully the new protection from collateral damage given by drill 2-4 will effect all units in the drill unit’s stack that the drill unit is protecting, and not just the drill unit itself).

 

[strollen]

Put me down for the use your first warlord to help qualify for Heroic Epic.
I added 10 points to 2 units, and immediately started build the Heroic Epic.

As I builder I often found it hard to qualify for West Point even by the time Military Tradition was available. So I figured getting a 17 XP by the time I've researched literature would be very hard.

I also picked leadership in addition to City Raider 3, for the attached unit.
I figured that as Julus Caesar, (Imperilistic) any extra experience earns makes that much easier to get the next General. However, all of the special Warlord promotions are really great Tactics +30% withdrawal (especially with Flanking I,II), Morale +1 movement, and the uber +25% strength of combat VI.

I think a no brainer for the 2nd use of a General is adding him to the Heroic Epic city getting the +2 exp boost.


I am not sure what to do with my new 3rd General. I think the military academy is the weakest choice. So it is a toss up in making a 2nd set of Warlord unit or making a military instructor on my #2 military city.

 

[Andraeianus I]

In my current game I got my first general when I was already building Heroic Epic and was close to qualify for West Point. Those XP go very fast when you have a small army and the same units have to do a lot of 'work'!

So I added my Great General as an military instructor.

I played on epic. Chances are greater that you will have really experienced units by the time you get your first great general. So gamespeed matters!

 

[Gherald]

Using them for heroic/west point is definitely good.

I was in a multiplayer game last night on Quick speed, where my first warlord came when I was close to cavalry. So I waited and put all 20xp into a 7xp cavalry, giving me 1 more than the 26 exp I needed for west point. I immediately built the heroic/west point combo. My next warlord would join that city, so I eventually had:

barracks(3) + west point(4) + theocracy(2) + military instructor(2) = 11 experience, combat III riflemen and infantry out of the gate : D

As for what I did with this warlord cav, I gave it medic III and morale. It worked great healing my rifles and doubling as an uber pillager.

By the time I got my 3rd warlord the game had pretty much been decided, so I took a CR3 infantry upgraded from a mace and beefed it up even more. That was a pretty sick unit; a medic III in the vicinity really makes March shine.

 

[Iustus]

You can add more than one general to the same city as multiple instructors. Adding 3 generals gives +6 in addition to other bonuses. So west point + 3 generals + barracks is +13xp for every unit. If you are theocracy and vassalage, thats +17xp for every unit you build there. (Pentagon would make it +19, or 17 if you dont switch to vassalage).

-Iustus

 

[CarpeDiem]

i have to say im annoyed how easy it is to kill my general units, i attack with 85% chance of win and lose then i wonder exactly how great is he when he needs major help sofening the defence

 

[KrikkitTwo]

1st of all the general needs time (+exp) to build up the promotions to give him those 95%+ odds for every battle
2nd NEVER attack a city without reducing the cultural/wall defense

 

[scipian]

Depends. In early games or that kind, I'd say Leader. For later times, I'd say the +25% military. production.