Best use of first great spy?

[Mesousa]

If you build the Great Wall, chances are good your first great person will be a great spy. What is the best use for him?

Scotland Yard seems pointless, as you won't be generating many, if any, EPs that early in the game. On the other hand, you don't know if you'll ever get a second great spy to build it.

Settling him gives you a steady and early source of EPs. It becomes more attractive if you're running Representation, but you won't be doing that this early unless you got the Pyramids too.

You can sacrifice him against a single opponent, which would give you a huge lasting espionage advantage there, one that you could turn into a lot of cheap missions - which can mean a lot of more or less free technologies, for example.

So, what do you do?

 

[DisruptiveIdiot]

It depends. If I have a target for war, I'll infiltrate their civilization to give me an edge. Otherwise I'll settle them and then have the second one build scotland yard.

 

[NaZdReG]

best to infiltrate someone you see as being an ally late into the game. if you infiltrate a soon target you could end up wasting all of those points. when you have decided on your infiltrate target you must remember to stop spying on them directly. those points will now be much better spent on someone else.

if in the late game you decide to attack the opponent you infiltrated, you can use spies instead of siege weapons to knock away defence% by inciting riots the turn before you attack. I just took on someone with calvary alone (had access to cannons) by sending 2 spies to each target city (for insurance). I had enough EP's by then to make sure I could incite riots in each city I was attacking, negating his defensive bonuses

if all you see are enemies (espeically if they are not good at teching) then I would settle for the beakers and EP's. get yourself scotland yard only if you really think you need it. otherwise save for a golden age, as you negate anarchy while you are in a GA now. so an otherwise useless great person will have saved you multiple turns of anarchy.

NaZ

 

[marioflag]

Scotland Yard wouldn't make sense as first choice considering that it would produce 100% of 3-4 espionage points, using it in an enemy civ would be a wise choice but in early game the balance of the game is not yet decided, so i usually use him as a super specialist in my city.

 

[Ecofarm]

best to infiltrate someone you see as being an ally late into the game. if you infiltrate a soon target you could end up wasting all of those points. when you have decided on your infiltrate target you must remember to stop spying on them directly. those points will now be much better spent on someone else.

if in the late game you decide to attack the opponent you infiltrated, you can use spies instead of siege weapons to knock away defence% by inciting riots the turn before you attack. I just took on someone with calvary alone (had access to cannons) by sending 2 spies to each target city (for insurance). I had enough EP's by then to make sure I could incite riots in each city I was attacking, negating his defensive bonuses

1st Gspy and 3-4 26h (quickspeed) spies go with initial SoD. They drop culture to 0 in target city, steal 1-2 techs, and / to allow leftovers from main SoD to finish the civ (keeping best cities).
Still need some seige for collateral.

I'm not sure what to do with non-GSpy generated EP, as they do not seem enough for any real impact. Perhaps slugging through the industrial age would be worth mundane missions. Minimal EPs from courts is enough to see techs, and a slider boost will quickly give investigate (noble MP).

 

[Watiggi]

My games thus far (and this has always put me decisively on top in espionage each game):

(turning the capital into a espionage super city)

Build Great Wall in the capital city.

1st GS -> super specialist (+12 EP's) into the capital (combined with the capital's initial of +4, gives a total of +16 EP's)

2nd GS -> Scotland Yard (+100% EP's) into the capital (which doubles the +16 EP's to +32 EP's)

3rd GS -> super specialist into the capital. When combined with Scotland Yard, it gives an instant additional +24 EP's per turn (+12 EP's from super specialist +100% from Scotland Yard).

4th, 5th, 6th...etc -> super specialist into the capital city. Each super specialist gives an additional +24 EP's (because of Scotland Yard).

Put a courthouse into the capital city first chance you get and then make a spy specialist which adds to the great spy points and thus increases the number of GS's you're likely to get.

With a capital, with a courthouse, spy specialist, scotland yard and 2 super specialists:

+4 palace
+4 courthouse
+4 spy specialist
+12 super specialist
+12 super specialist
+100% scotland yard
= +72 EP's per turn!

With 3 super specialists:
+96 EP's

With 4 super specialists:
+120 EP's

etc.

Note: This is with 0% on the espionage slider!

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Is creating an espionage super city worth it though? Four great spies but that means you are missing out on all the other kinds of great people. One great spy infiltrating an enemy early would seem to give you several techs and the option to devastate them. So much so I think we have a new kind of early rush - a great spy rush.

 

[NaZdReG]

I must say that I wouldn't really want more than 2. I deliberately drowned out the great wall's gp points to minimize the chance of getting further great spys. 1 on my continent against wang kong was a great move, he stayed my ally until he was my vassel .

the other that unfortunately spawned I used on a golden age, but should have used on hannibal (other continent) when I had it over there (changed mind and started GA) he ended up being a late game enemy. but it would have been too difficult to send spys over there.

however if you are unsure of what to do, the settled great spy also adds beakers which is useful. and 16 EPs per turn is 8pt at 2 different civs, which should outpace them.

NaZ

 

[jackdog]

Although I have not been using the eps slider a lot its late in first game got infantry now and am way ahead of everyone, domination very soon. have all my esp points concentrated on current enemy (washington) and still have never come across the option to incite riot or steal tech ever...

I get unhappy, unhealthy, destroy improvement, or infiltrate but thats about it. I have never gained a great spy yet as missed great wall but have lots of EP buildings in lots of cities, could it still be I have not earned enough ep points to open those options, do you have to have had a great spy for some options to open.

Am very frustrated these options don't seem to be open to me, what am I doing wrong, sorry to go off thread topic a bit....

 

[TheLastOne36]

Scotland Yard so you can start building spies.

 

[Stormreaver]

Scotland Yard so you can start building spies.

Don't need SY to build spies anymore.

Freely available to build in all cities after Alphabet.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Ok good to know... So i wasted the GS? Damn..

Edit:

I built the scotland yard before Alphabet. (gs was after great wall) and i was able to build spies before alphabet!

Possible strat or bug?

 

[aronnax]

If you build the Great Wall, chances are good your first great person will be a great spy. What is the best use for him?


So, what do you do?

To get a nice cool glass skyscraper in the classical era.

I would settle him first, it seems better to have that extra points pouring in.

 

[civzombie]

I would definitely use him on an opponent, if I thought that he would make war lots easier against that opponent. The present value of taking over an opponent can lead to longterm benefits that outweigh the +12 points per turn of the super specialist or the Scotland yard.

 

[isau]

I think someone mentioned it, but a decent use would be to use against the tech leader, if s/he happens to be close by. An alternative would be to use it against an AI you know is likely to go down a different tech path than you (e.g. Isabella if you head down the Bronze > Iron route). After sending in the Great Spy follow up with some normal spies and use Steal Tech. You can steal 3 or 4 early techs this way.

-Isau

 

[ComradeGeneral]

Always build scotland yard because having a skyscraper in an ancient city is just funny.

 

[Blkbird]

Using the first Great Spy to construct the Scotland Yard doesn't have to be a waste - it could in fact produce a significantly larger output then joining a city.

It's year 1400 in my game, and I've just got a Great Spy as my second regular Great Person (I haven't got more because I didn't build any Wonders in the early game - normally I do, but in this game I was trying a different strategy). My capital is already producing 23 EP (20% Espionage + Courthouse + 1 Specialist), so the Scotland Yard doubles it to 46 EP - that's most definitely a more efficient use than joining the city.

 

[Cromat]

Go straight to Alphabet, use it to infiltrate a Civ and build Spies to steal some techs to backfill and trade. Gave me a pretty nice tech advantage.

 

[kell_the_kyuss]

1st for for me is a Golden Age.
2nd one is SY.
3rd and beyond for infiltration.

 

[Spammurabi]

If the spy is from GW, I'd settle in the capital. A super-early game spy will net you far more EP over an initial infiltration.

However, this may change at higher levels. When you get to the point where your opponents out tech you consistently (Monarch+, let's say), an early infiltration to play catch-up without trading away your beeline techs may be better.