best UU....the cataphract. better than praets.

[ChiefTonfa]

better than praets, thats right. the cataphract is a knight with a strength of 12, not 10. which means its an even match for pikeman and elephants and way stronger than everything else until riflemen which is a long time. really, if u beeline guilds u can have the cataphract for a while before riflemen show up and be more powerful than everyone. plus, the stables give an extra two points, if u use theocracy and vassalage thats 6 plus 3 from barracks is 9, which means 3 promotions if you're charismatic, or u could go for impreialistic and use great generals to give them the extra points. cataphracts with 30% strength, you're so strong u can easily defend a large empire and take over others. plus, another reason they are better than praetorians is they remain relevant for longer and at that point of the game there's more u can take over with them, with praets empires are still being built but with cataphracts u can take over large established empires easily. so, thats my two cents about the best UU, its byzantiums btw. i play them with catherine, i only wish there was a creative charismatic leader.

 

[PhroX]

Perhaps, perhaps. But Praets, and indeed my vote for best UU, the Quecha, come earlier. And getting an advantage earlier is far far better that one that comes later.

 

[JonathanStrange]

Cataphracts are indeed awesome if the Byzantines survive long enough to get 'em - and that's the rub. If I'm strong enough to survive and make cataphracts aplenty, most times it's more for piling onto the success I already am enjoying. They usually don't create the success the way Praetorians do. (Although I've seen a middle-of-the-road averge strength Byzantine nation kick a$$ once it got Cataphracts, so anything can happen).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Knights are an awkward part of the tech tree, and a bit slow to get. Prats are archer rape @ IW...far superior. Honestly few things can come close to the early archer-killer UUs.

 

[Cashew]

I once had someone in multiplayer rush Cataphracts against me. I hadn't realized he had them as he was raiding someone else first (and killing them really fast). When I attacked him with my war elephant/cata stack I was astounded to see he had Cataphracts, but I still ended up razing his nearest city before retreating and building up more war elephants. He continued to try and push into my land with Cataphracts but every time 2 or 3 catapults hit a small stack of his the war elephants would always clean them out. Eventually he quit because he realized the only units I was losing were catapults and my army was massively larger than his. In short, it's not unrealistic for someone with ivory to end up completely overwhelming someone with cataphracts.

Although I feel the praet is also very counterable, it's not so easy to completely overwhelm if someone goes straight for them. Add that to the fact that unlike cataphracts the praet can also be used for early game choking and that a lot of people skip medieval warfare and you can see why people prefer the praet.

 

[michmbk]

I like cataphracts - if I go down the lib-steel beeline, cataphracts and cannons can destroy the world...but, if you hit that, cannons and anything can destroy the world. Plus, as TMIT mentioned, they're on the lower half of the tech tree, which doesn't usually provide the most bang for its buck.

I'd rate cataphracts as a second tier UU. My favorite UUs include keshiks, praets, fast workers, quechuas, immortals. IMO, Cataphracts would fall into the next tier with UUs like oromos, vultures, CKN, war chariots...

 

[pfo]

I guarantee you, Byzantines vs. Rome heads up, Rome would win. You'd be all smiles as you research towards guilds, until the army of praets comes in and ruins you. Not saying that Cataphracts aren't good, but you have to consider the time you spend getting to them. I found them to be a great UU in the past.

 

[UWHabs]

Personally I think Janissaries are better than Cataphracts, although the cataphracts are pretty powerful on their own. For me, I seem to almost never run down the bottom part of the tech line. If I beeline for a tech, I'll often find myself getting cuirassiers faster than knights.

Now, if guilds were a required prereq for gunpowder, then we're talking a different story...

 

[Belisar]

getting an advantage earlier is far far better that one that comes later.

This.
The cataphract is strong, fast (always a plus) and together with spies you can use them efficiently.
But there are a few earlier, better UUs.

 

[Ghpstage]

You also need to consider that Cataphracts will be facing well developed city defenses, Preats won't.
In my opinion the only UU that can even be compared to Preats are Immortals, they kick ass almost as well, just in fast forward
**Edit: oops forgot Quenchas but they're broken anyway

 

[Cashew]

You also need to consider that Cataphracts will be facing well developed city defenses, Preats won't.
In my opinion the only UU that can even be compared to Preats are Immortals, they kick ass almost as well, just in fast forward

That can easily be dealt with using spies. Also, if you're maneuvering well you should be hitting cities that are mostly empty anyways. Breaking a stack of 2 movement units on a heavily defended city completely defeats the purpose of the 2 movement points.

 

[Antilogic]

Cataphracts are indeed awesome if the Byzantines survive long enough to get 'em - and that's the rub. If I'm strong enough to survive and make cataphracts aplenty, most times it's more for piling onto the success I already am enjoying. They usually don't create the success the way Praetorians do. (Although I've seen a middle-of-the-road averge strength Byzantine nation kick a$$ once it got Cataphracts, so anything can happen).

What is more amazing to me, at least, is I have seen this three times in my recent games. Only the AI managed to pull it off! That's right, the AI managed to take a struggling position and become the scourge of my late game. The swarms of Combat IV and Combat II/Flanking II cavalry I saw...sheerly amazing...Justinian was the true Mongol.

Thus, I have a little respect for the Cataphract. I'll give them a top 10 slot on the UU list.

 

[mechaerik]

Cataphracts own! I was playing the Byzantines the other day, and i was ahead in tech (thanks to an early game power grab from the Celts), and i got Cataphracts. I was all but unstoppable. Definitely in the top 10.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

1. Quecha
2. Prat
3. Immortal
4. War Chariot
5. Keshik
6. Vulture
7. Oromo
8. Janissary
9. Redcoat
10. Conquistador

Not top 10 . But top 1/2.

 

[Joecoolyo]

No love for Immortals? Those guys helped me shoot up a couple levels, especially when used in combination with Earth 34, and Darius. I was able to conquer the Middle East and Europe before the A.D.'s, using only those guys.

 

[Turquoiside]

I have to question why Vultures are up there, They may be the best Axe replacement, but the axe replacements aren't notorious for being above marginal.

And War Chariots better than Oromos and Jans? The strength bonus is the only thing they have right, or am I missing something amazing? Same with Keshiks, but those are decent UUs.

I love Cataphracts too, the are basically early Cuirassiers. You can easilt remove the 'penalty' right out the gate. Your opponent had to have had terrible strategy to attack with only Cataphratcs, Cashew. Only Bastillas would be able to have the ability to dismantle them effectively if it was mixed right. A good player should've been able to win that scuffle.

Cataphracts and Samurais are great in that they replace a unit that is already decent if effectively fielded

 

[Joecoolyo]

I have to question why Vultures are up there, They may be the best Axe replacement, but the axe replacements aren't notorious for being above marginal.

And War Chariots better than Oromos and Jans? The strength bonus is the only thing they have right, or am I missing something amazing? Same with Keshiks, but those are decent UUs.

Vultures are great cause their basically swordsman with a bonus against melee, I don't see why that isn't notoriously good in anyway?

War Chariots are good b/c they are basically axes on wheels, or axemen that can travel farther and faster than the regular type can.

 

[Jewman]

Cataphracts and Samurais are great in that they replace a unit that is already decent if effectively fielded

totally agree. cataphracts also work perfectly with the whole byzantine civ (the hippodrome giving happiness with horses) and knights are indeed deadly units for medieval wars. Knights alone are often in danger when they pillage, but when i have cataphracts i can send them deep in enemy territory and pillage left and right without many worries.

Not to mention that with trebs they are overkill.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

War chariots are immune to first strikes as well.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

I think I'd rate the Berserker somewhere between 8 and 10.