Beta 11

[AbsintheRed]

Definitely leave the effect in the game. It actually made Brest a useful city for me for much of my game as France. If you need a Scandinavian wonder in the game that makes more sense to induce such an effect, maybe just change the wonder's name and art? The Jelling Stones or Jelling Stone Ship could allow us to keep the wonder's effect while making sense and not adding another wonder to the game. These "wonders" still exist and are well understood, while the Temple of Uppsala is not.

(To quote wikipedia: The stones represent the transitional period between the indigenous Norse paganism and the process of Christianization in Denmark. They are strongly identified with the creation of Denmark as a nation state.)

So you say to have the Jelling Stones instead of the Shrine of Uppsala, with the same effects?
But I don't get it, how does the Jelling stones make more sense to have the +1 hammer on coast tiles?

 

[rock_star]

I was actually thinking along the lines of them being more similar to the Moai statues (large stone monument structures), but now that you press the point, I'm not sure how the Moai make sense in creating sea tiles workable, either.

 

[Veshta]

It is what the Moai represent. They were a huge engineering marvel and built on islands that translates into production from the sea.

Shrine of Uppsala is probably one of the best options for a similar effect as it to me heralds the golden age of Vikings at the beginning of what we refer to as the Viking age and is pre-Christian which is more important.

As much as I love the Runestones, they are "merely" a unity symbol for the various chiefdoms who came under the rule of the first 'king(s)' and announcing the coming of Christianity .. they are for all intents and purposes a very big unwieldy plaque

An entirely "new" ides would be to mimic the RFC Great Lighthouse and add trade routes. Wonder could be the Birka Trade-centre which was hugely important at the time (at least for the Swedes).
Makes sense to have construction of a trade hub be boosted by amber as well, so double win

 

[merijn_v1]

It is what the Moai represent. They were a huge engineering marvel and built on islands that translates into production from the sea.

Shrine of Uppsala is probably one of the best options for a similar effect as it to me heralds the golden age of Vikings at the beginning of what we refer to as the Viking age and is pre-Christian which is more important.

As much as I love the Runestones, they are "merely" a unity symbol for the various chiefdoms who came under the rule of the first 'king(s)' and announcing the coming of Christianity .. they are for all intents and purposes a very big unwieldy plaque

An entirely "new" ides would be to mimic the RFC Great Lighthouse and add trade routes. Wonder could be the Birka Trade-centre which was hugely important at the time (at least for the Swedes).
Makes sense to have construction of a trade hub be boosted by amber as well, so double win

Not very new. Magellan's Voyage has this bonus.

 

[Veshta]

They both have Shipbuilding as expiration/availability tech, so if the obsolescence of the early Norse wonder remains then it merely replaces it with the "improved" version which provides +2 rather than +1 (which would be more than enough for a pre 1000AD wonder) .. just figured a route benefit provides a better synergy with the UB.

Either way, just throwing my brain into the storm as I am wont to do

 

[AbsintheRed]

Veshta, I don't think we should add an entirely new wonder to the mod
The trading center of Birka would be totally new. Both the wonder itself, both the bonus you suggested.
If we allow this, all the other requested wonders would start to flow, and as I said, we already have plenty wonders in RFCE

We may only expand the Shrine of Uppsala which is already in - so both the wonder (with pagan bonuses), and the current bonus (with an appropriate wonder "art") would make more sense

 

[Opera]

Why not simply the Great Lighthouse for the Lanterna? Art is secondary anyway. You can take of that later.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Why not simply the Great Lighthouse for the Lanterna? Art is secondary anyway. You can take of that later.

I'm not against it
But we still haven't decided if we should split the Shrine of Uppsala
And if we do, that the new wonder should be the Lanterna
Merijn seems to like the idea, but I would also like to hear 3Miro's opinion on this

 

[civ_king]

The Great Lighthouse is acceptable as a temporary art piece for Laterna di Genova

 

[merijn_v1]

I can try to make the Great Lighthouse more to have a gray color. I'll post a screenshot of it soon.

EDIT: Done. It is maybe a big to dark.

 

[civ_king]

Could you lighten it and remove a lot of windows? (then what we'd need is to compress the lighthouse top and get the coat of arms on it)

 

[merijn_v1]

Could you lighten it and remove a lot of windows? (then what we'd need is to compress the lighthouse top and get the coat of arms on it)

If I add the Coat of Arms, it will be on all sides of the Lighthouse. But I can lighten it and revoming the windows isn't a problem either.

 

[Veshta]

Reason I interjected in the discussion was two-fold, one because people started talking about the Runestones which while old and a national treasure have no other significance and would make for a bad wonder.
Two because Norse economy when going for the UHV tanks hard and early due to immense distances involved combined with no trade routes (time spent building stability rather than markets).

But I am not privy to the UHV changes so it may well be a moot point, just thought a trade "something" was appropriate since Burn'n'Pillage is more than covered and my campaign to focus more on the more benevolent side of the Viking age floundered

 

[AbsintheRed]

Reason I interjected in the discussion was two-fold, one because people started talking about the Runestones which while old and a national treasure have no other significance and would make for a bad wonder.
Two because Norse economy when going for the UHV tanks hard and early due to immense distances involved combined with no trade routes (time spent building stability rather than markets).

But I am not privy to the UHV changes so it may well be a moot point, just thought a trade "something" was appropriate since Burn'n'Pillage is more than covered and my campaign to focus more on the more benevolent side of the Viking age floundered

Yeah, I get that, and while I agree that a new early trading wonder would be nice for the Norse, many other new wonders would be nice in the mod too
And I don't want to get into the process of that.
So the list ends here - till we have another agreement with 3Miro and Merijn on this - with expanding the current Shrine of Uppsala to 2 wonders

 

[AbsintheRed]

If I add the Coat of Arms, it will be on all sides of the Lighthouse. But I can lighten it and revoming the windows isn't a problem either.

Sounds nice!
In my opinion you can even add the Coat of Arms too

 

[ezzlar]

I dont get it. Uppsala isnt a coastal city. Why the lighthouse?

 

[Opera]

The Shrine of Uppsala's effect will be changed.
The current effect will be put on a new wonder, the Lanterna di Genova, which is completely unrelated to Uppsala.

 

[merijn_v1]

I'll add the art of the Laterna with the new Arabian and Russian art. I didn't have time yesterday, but I have now.

I'm not sure if I can add the Coat of Arms. I'm afraid it will look very messy. I'll see what I can do.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Merijn, I have a request for you, since you are already adding new art: Vytatutas should get a new button
All the other leaders have buttons with the BG included, so it's strange to see Vytautas this way
Could you add this too with your upcoming art update?

 

[merijn_v1]

No problem. My art updates are delayed until tomorrow evening. So things got in between.