Better Unit Movement and Military Strategy

[Argetnyx]

Remember the concept of airspace? You could use that to add a third dimension to civ. An air unit can act like any other unit, but it can only occupy airspace, unless it is landed. They will have a certain nunber of spaces that they can go from their airbase before having to turn back. If they don't, they will have to find another landing space, or crash. Combat will reduce the amount of MPs left.

The only way that they can interact with land or sea units is if they bomb them. Flak, during its turn, will have the option to fire at a nearby aircraft, depending on its firing range. When an aircraft attacks a stack that includes a flak unit, the flak guns will automatically fire on it. Depending on the size, defense, and speed of the aircraft and the quality and number of flak guns, the plane can either be shot down, damaged, or untouched.

 

[MosheLevi]

This will defeat the purpose of scouts and recon missions. I agree with you on the chess part, but you should only be able to see as far as your units can.

I am not objecting the 10+ tiles move, just the 10+ tiles attack.
For that scouts and recon missions are still going to be important in order to see where the majority of enemy units are located.

However, if units can attack only from up to 4-5 tiles away then our units can see all the enemy units in their area.

I am suggesting that in order to prevent enemy attacks from very seep in the fog of war (10+ tiles away).

Only with this change Civ 5 can play out more like a Chess game.

 

[Argetnyx]

I don't think that units should be able to move 6+ tiles anyway.

 

[rysmiel]

Remember the concept of airspace? You could use that to add a third dimension to civ. An air unit can act like any other unit, but it can only occupy airspace, unless it is landed. They will have a certain nunber of spaces that they can go from their airbase before having to turn back. If they don't, they will have to find another landing space, or crash. Combat will reduce the amount of MPs left.

I would like a model like Civ2:Test of Time's multiple map layers - where air units go into a different map layer in flight.

 

[Hail]

i dislike the "giant movement" idea. it would tilt the balance even more toward defenders.

i forsee 4 map layers: underwater + ocean floor, land/sea, air, space.

 

[Camikaze]

There should, I suppose, be some degree of increased movement (to reflect the fact that it doesn't actually take forty years to move one tile), but 20 tiles is a bit extreme. Maybe just double everything as it currently is.

 

[Argetnyx]

The movement rates are pretty accurate how they are. On land, at least. If this was perfect, movement would be much slower, and the whole game would be taken up by moving units.

I like hail's idea, but only with 3 layers, underwater, surface, and air.

 

[rysmiel]

I like hail's idea, but only with 3 layers, underwater, surface, and air.

Oh, I want an orbital layer; even for those players who don't like specific future technologies, I can see a lot of point to representing satellites, orbital launches, space stations such as we already have, and building your starship in orbit. Give satellites the ability to identify unit locations on the ground in enemy territory, frex, so you can always tell exactly how many units are in someone else's stack or city (up to a certain point, if you want some units to have countermeasures that's fine). It would open up a whole new dimension to work in at exactly the point where the modern age currently starts to run out of new options.

 

[exhile]

I am not objecting the 10+ tiles move, just the 10+ tiles attack.
For that scouts and recon missions are still going to be important in order to see where the majority of enemy units are located.

However, if units can attack only from up to 4-5 tiles away then our units can see all the enemy units in their area.

I am suggesting that in order to prevent enemy attacks from very seep in the fog of war (10+ tiles away).

Only with this change Civ 5 can play out more like a Chess game.

I see what you mean now. The movement points of an attacker generally degrade once in enemy territory. This is a current game mechanic that will resolve your 10+ movement points + attack concern.

 

[exhile]

Oh, I want an orbital layer; even for those players who don't like specific future technologies, I can see a lot of point to representing satellites, orbital launches, space stations such as we already have, and building your starship in orbit. Give satellites the ability to identify unit locations on the ground in enemy territory, frex, so you can always tell exactly how many units are in someone else's stack or city (up to a certain point, if you want some units to have countermeasures that's fine). It would open up a whole new dimension to work in at exactly the point where the modern age currently starts to run out of new options.

I'd like to see an orbital layer and a underwater layer in an expansion pack. An air tile layer with military & commercial planes is complex enough.

 

[Argetnyx]

I don't think adding commercial planes will be very practical. If you wanted to do that, you would have to add horses, wagons, cars, trucks, merchant ships, and trains. That gets too overcomplicated and annoying.

 

[exhile]

I don't think adding commercial planes will be very practical. If you wanted to do that, you would have to add horses, wagons, cars, trucks, merchant ships, and trains. That gets too overcomplicated and annoying.

I added commercial planes to the air tile layer as a possibility.

 

[Camikaze]

Yeah, that would be way too complicated. Perhaps, if an air layer was added, there could be trade routes via air tiles, rather than via sea tiles, to an extent, but it would have to be automated, similarly to what I said in this thread:

Make Naval More Important, pat4, 26/2/09

 

[Argetnyx]

And I think I agreed (I'm too lazy to check)...

 

[rysmiel]

I don't think adding commercial planes will be very practical. If you wanted to do that, you would have to add horses, wagons, cars, trucks, merchant ships, and trains. That gets too overcomplicated and annoying.

You think ? That's exactly the leveel of extra complexity i think the game would most benefit from.

 

[Shackel]

Well, I played a game called "Hearts of Iron 2", and even though it was a grand strategy game, it had an interesting thing with it's movement.

The farther the unit moves, the less powerful it would be. This goes with fatigue and things like that, because, really, if you walk 40 miles, will you be as prepared as another person who was sitting there?

There should be a negative modifier that gets higher depending on how much you moved before you attacked.

This could also go hand in hand with the "Patrol" idea due to the fact that you may think that the 5 tile move may not be that deadly, yet at tile 4, you're attacked by a patrolling unit.

 

[Argetnyx]

Well, I played a game called "Hearts of Iron 2", and even though it was a grand strategy game, it had an interesting thing with it's movement.

The farther the unit moves, the less powerful it would be. This goes with fatigue and things like that, because, really, if you walk 40 miles, will you be as prepared as another person who was sitting there?

There should be a negative modifier that gets higher depending on how much you moved before you attacked.

This could also go hand in hand with the "Patrol" idea due to the fact that you may think that the 5 tile move may not be that deadly, yet at tile 4, you're attacked by a patrolling unit.

Way too tactical... Civ is very large scale.

 

[Ramesses]

Well, I played a game called "Hearts of Iron 2", and even though it was a grand strategy game, it had an interesting thing with it's movement.

The farther the unit moves, the less powerful it would be. This goes with fatigue and things like that, because, really, if you walk 40 miles, will you be as prepared as another person who was sitting there?

There should be a negative modifier that gets higher depending on how much you moved before you attacked.

This could also go hand in hand with the "Patrol" idea due to the fact that you may think that the 5 tile move may not be that deadly, yet at tile 4, you're attacked by a patrolling unit.

I like this. Leftover movement points act as a bonus to your attack, and smaller patrols give bigger bonuses.

 

[Argetnyx]

Still too tactical...

 

[Shackel]

How is it too tactical? You move your unit too far, you run the risk of getting attacked. It's almost the same as wars in general. You move too much towards one end, the other end may declare, and you're dead.

Is that too tactical, as well? No.