Big maps in CIV (V)?

[anon0932]

Hi, I am actually concerned with something and registered for this specific topic, hoping someone here will help me . (if this isnt the right section please move).

Basically, im wondering whether the sizes of Civ5 maps will be bigger then those of previous Civs.

Ill just copypaste this here since I dont want to rewrite it.

I have played most of the civilization titles out there and what concerns me the most is the map sizes. I know that most people enjoy small(er) maps, but just stick with me here.

I enjoy having really huge maps, and well... I enjoy civ. The problem is, most of the maps for civ are ridiculously small. For example, for Civ4, I downloaded several maps/mods that were supposed to be the biggest (earth maps actually). They were not really big, for example Japan can only fit 4 cities max (the main island).

The problem starts here, many say that big maps would lag and not function properly hence making slow loading times and slow end turn times. Even though my current PC setup is mid-tier (well its able to run every game at full settings on 1920 x 1200 resolution at full speed, including Assassins Creed 2, GTA4, UT3, every COD, all NFS, all Total War, Crysis, etc etc) I was able to run the big maps without any lag.

I am not a dev and obviously have no experience with coding but, if we have huge 3d cities and environments such as GTA4, AC2, why are all civ maps forced to be so tiny?

Is it simply not possible technically speaking? (if so, then can someone explain in simple terms as to why we have small maps in civ but big environments in other games).

TL;DR can someone explain why there aren't any big maps in CIV and if its simply impossible to run them, can anyone recommend any games which focus on similar gameplay but with bigger maps/environments (preferably so that I am able to fit more cities)

Any info/help is highly appreciated

 

[tom2050]

Well, from what we know, Elizabeth 2K said huge maps will be really huge! Of course, that statement cannot really relate to how we have always known Civ to be.

So far, on screenshots we have seen, looks like each civ in the games have 5 cities each. Yes, only 5 cities. Largest maps can have all 23 civs play. They stated that there will be more city-states on the map than civilizations, and with each city taking up 36 tiles each; there may be 'More Land', but there will be 'Less Units and Less Cities'.

1 unit per tile usually means less units (not always), and with the info that units will be very expensive; less units is a fairly accurate assumption. (My guess is 3-5 units per city MAX).

 

[Commander Bello]

They have announced to have a special 64bit version of the game available.
So, with Win7 64bit and a good cpu you should be able to run a modified gigantic map - from the technical point of view.

But there is the gameplay aspect as well.
Civ4 was clearly designed for small maps, thus making it very hard to align gameplay for bigger maps.
I have the strong impression that the same is going to be true for Civ5 as well.

You may modify it, but I am sceptical to say the least if the AI will be able to deal with it properly - not to mention graphical effects, which might be hardcoded again, as they've been in Civ4.

 

[anon0932]

Well, from what we know, Elizabeth 2K said huge maps will be really huge! Of course, that statement cannot really relate to how we have always known Civ to be.

So far, on screenshots we have seen, looks like each civ in the games have 5 cities each. Yes, only 5 cities. Largest maps can have all 23 civs play. They stated that there will be more city-states on the map than civilizations, and with each city taking up 36 tiles each; there may be 'More Land', but there will be 'Less Units and Less Cities'.

1 unit per tile usually means less units (not always), and with the info that units will be very expensive; less units is a fairly accurate assumption. (My guess is 3-5 units per city MAX).

I see, thanks. Does that mean that players will only be allowed up to 5 cities each

Also spacing between cities (more land) doesnt really matter to me since its more realistic, but I still wish to have a lot of cities (some may be smaller then others, some may be villages and some may be huge cities)

I'm going to ask another question, hopefully you or someone else can anwser (though im pretty sure it doesnt belong to Civ5 but its on the same topic).

Is there any way to make a (really) big map for previous versions of Civ (such as civ3, which is not demanding in resources since I can play it on my 8 year old laptop, which means I would be able to run giant maps on my main PC) Or is there some sort of limitation as to how big a civ map can be?

 

[Commander Bello]

Is there any way to make a (really) big map for previous versions of Civ (such as civ3, which is not demanding in resources since I can play it on my 8 year old laptop, which means I would be able to run giant maps on my main PC) Or is there some sort of limitation as to how big a civ map can be?

At the time when I was still playing Civ3, you could modify map sizes but there was a hardcoded cap to number of cities and number of units.

People say, there is a modification out somewhere which would get rid of these caps, but I can't direct you to it, since I don't know more about it than just hearsay.

 

[tom2050]

The screenshots which showed around 5 cities per civ are not known what size maps they were. It is speculated those were smaller maps, or medium map. The largest map shown in a screenshot had maybe 6 or 7 cities (can't remember). I would guess under 10 cities for huge maps.

Perhaps to get more, you would need to warmonger. I am with you though, I like owning 50 cities with 400 units to control. Hopefully more info comes out on the specifics. So far, only observations and guesses on alot of this stuff.

At the time when I was still playing Civ3, you could modify map sizes but there was a hardcoded cap to number of cities and number of units.

People say, there is a modification out somewhere which would get rid of these caps, but I can't direct you to it, since I don't know more about it than just hearsay.

A modified EXE file was created that gets rid of the 512 city limit (along with a modified editor to place over 512 cities in a scenario). The 8192 unit cap is still there though. I don't have link handy though, Civ 3 forum members could direct someone to it.

 

[anon0932]

At the time when I was still playing Civ3, you could modify map sizes but there was a hardcoded cap to number of cities and number of units.

People say, there is a modification out somewhere which would get rid of these caps, but I can't direct you to it, since I don't know more about it than just hearsay.

Aww, that sucks for me, since I would enjoy making an empire with lots of micromanagement for a couple of weeks on a big map. Kinda like a long campaign.

Guess I'm stuck with small maps for now.

The screenshots which showed around 5 cities per civ are not known what size maps they were. It is speculated those were smaller maps, or medium map. The largest map shown in a screenshot had maybe 6 or 7 cities (can't remember). I would guess under 10 cities for huge maps.

Perhaps to get more, you would need to warmonger. I am with you though, I like owning 50 cities with 400 units to control. Hopefully more info comes out on the specifics. So far, only observations and guesses on alot of this stuff.

Haha yeah, I wish Civ would let you focus more on micromanagement and bigger maps so I could have a small island contain several cities instead of just 1. Perhaps manage resources in a more advanced way, build many roads instead of just one big road and interact with your citizens more. (hopefully they would add an option so those who like smaller maps and original civ could still play it)

Basically I would need a 20x zoom

A modified EXE file was created that gets rid of the 512 city limit (along with a modified editor to place over 512 cities in a scenario). The 8192 unit cap is still there though. I don't have link handy though, Civ 3 forum members could direct someone to it.

So if some kind soul would happen to have a link or if I somehow got my hands on it, it would allow the bigger maps?

For example, obviously the city limit would increase but would I still be left with the same template map? Or would I be able to make that bigger?

 

[P-Dubya]

I like big maps too..... yet, for me, the Standard size is the highest I can go. My computer and slow net speed forces me onto the Standard size. I just hope they make an earth map that is of a moderate size. If not, then looks like I'm going to build yet another standard sized earth

 

[anon0932]

I like big maps too..... yet, for me, the Standard size is the highest I can go. My computer and slow net speed forces me onto the Standard size. I just hope they make an earth map that is of a moderate size. If not, then looks like I'm going to build yet another standard sized earth

I know what you mean, I really want to remove civ3 limitations and make a reaallly huge map with some mods, since it shouldn't be demanding in requirements.

I would rather have an old civ game with big maps then a new improved graphically civ game with smaller ^^.

Looks like im going to have to find that limit removal patch.

 

[Aramel]

The correct answer is that we don't know how many cities each civ will have on a huge map because we haven't seen any huge maps. We do know, however, that happiness is shared by the entire civilization instead of being separate for each city, so if you want to have a ton of cities, they probably won't be that big.

We did see one screenshot with 2 cities with only one tile between them, so you might be able to build cities closer together than in Civ4. On the other hand, those cities might just have been created in Worldbuilder; we don't really know.

 

[anon0932]

Ok, so I browsed the downloads here for the city limit removal and after searching for 10 seconds I found this.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13028

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=327919

But can someone help me? The city limit removal doesn't really help if the land itself is small. Is there some sort of limit as to how big the MAP itself can be?

Or would I be able to make a map x20 times bigger then the ones I have?

Your responses are highly appreciated.

 

[tom2050]

I believe max size of Civ 3 maps is 362x362. With the no city limits, you can expand beyond reaching the 512 max city size limit. You would have to use the editor to force a size this big. There are already World Maps created in the Civ 3 Maps section (big and detailed ones) you could use.

Beware though! Playing on tougher difficulties increases the AI production bonus' by alot, which means AI will churn out lots of units. The 8,192 unit limit still stands, and the game will crash if this limit is reached. Therefore, there is still a balance that needs to be reached to avoid a crash in mid-late game.

Attempts were made to get ahold of Knuckles, his Russian buddy did the no city limit patch sometime last year IIRC... It's likely a similar patch could be done to remove the unit limit, but you have to really know what you are doing to accomplish such a thing with an EXE!

 

[anon0932]

I believe max size of Civ 3 maps is 362x362. With the no city limits, you can expand beyond reaching the 512 max city size limit. You would have to use the editor to force a size this big. There are already World Maps created in the Civ 3 Maps section (big and detailed ones) you could use.

Beware though! Playing on tougher difficulties increases the AI production bonus' by alot, which means AI will churn out lots of units. The 8,192 unit limit still stands, and the game will crash if this limit is reached. Therefore, there is still a balance that needs to be reached to avoid a crash in mid-late game.

Attempts were made to get ahold of Knuckles, his Russian buddy did the no city limit patch sometime last year IIRC... It's likely a similar patch could be done to remove the unit limit, but you have to really know what you are doing to accomplish such a thing with an EXE!

So basically I would have to mod the AI/gameplay as well since the map is bigger?

But to my understanding it would be possible to make a map bigger then 362x362.

Also I'm not sure what size it was, but I played on Marla_singer's giant earth map, and unfortunately it was really small. I really wish I could make it at least 20x bigger.

 

[White Elk]

I like big maps as well anon0932. Civ4 maps were too small for my tastes. And then the blasted MAF prevented me from playing the huge maps. I seek epic games consisting of large empires. A single handful of cities does not a civilization make. Tiny, small and medium sized maps should be for those who like small maps. Large, Huge, and Super Sized should be for those of us who want a bigger game.

For a variety of different reasons,
It may be that the game many of us are looking for is Elemental:

 

[CommanderZ]

This comparison is pretty pointless. Maps in Elemental will likely be much more empty. Late-game, maps in Civ 4 are very crowded (basically every land tile is usually within work range of a city).

 

[Commander Bello]

This comparison is pretty pointless. Maps in Elemental will likely be much more empty. Late-game, maps in Civ 4 are very crowded (basically every land tile is usually within work range of a city).

Where's the problem?

One advertising feature of Civ5 is the battle in the open country. So, why would it be bad if there would be space which is not directly under a city's control?

 

[V. Soma]

if we take that a map can have, for example
20 civs
25 city states

and we take 21 tiles per cities (as an average number owned by them)

and we take land tiles to be 60% of all tiles,

then

we have 4375 tiles, which is sg. we have seen on the strategic screens

 

[killmeplease]

big maps are boring

 

[12agnar0k]

I think we will be getting the same kind of size range that civ4BTS had, and game speed range, from tiny to gigantic and from marathon to quick.

 

[anon0932]

big maps are boring

Actually they aren't and can be pretty fun I think. I dislike the smallest maps in Civ4 and can only play on the biggest ones but it is still too small.

Some people enjoy spending an hour playing on a tiny map so they dont get bored (like you) but some people enjoy building a real empire (like me )

I like long types of games, ones that last a while, hell I would like to spend a couple of weeks building and managing on a big map.

I think its an option Civilization needs for us, big map lovers.

I think we will be getting the same kind of size range that civ4BTS had, and game speed range, from tiny to gigantic and from marathon to quick.

I also wish they would add longer speed option since the longest one takes me half a day