Birgit and the Ring of Carcer

[Dan1111]

Hi All,

So, I've often noticed the Ring of Carcer in the maps I've been playing but, considering the ridiculously hard requirement of getting a level 15 unit to break into the ring I'd never considered it (I operate a Stalinst policy of survival of the fittest, strongest man into the breach etc )

In my most recent game, my 1st scout turned into something of a survival specialist. He had ruins drop on his head, spawned numerous evil beasties intent on sending him to meet his ancestors prematurely, and progressed to a hunter, then a ranger. He was also noted for his enjoyment of being the 1st man through the gates on a number of city seiges.

By around turn 200 he had collected a poisened dagger and Orthus' axe along with 10 levels of experience. At this stage I seriously considered using him to break into the Ring. I had to go to war with 2 nations who I had previously been friendly with, just to get him to the level of experience required (he also captured and tamed Acheron the red dragon along the way).

I have to admit it was with some excitement that, when he hit level 15 I sent him off to the frozen tundra to break into the circle and rescue Birgit. I was expecting an epic battle, demons from hell determined to to ensure the arch-angel remained in captivity, perhaps the spawning of a small army. Instead I got a message saying that I had broken into the ring, and Birgit joined my ranks as a level 1 hero.

Somewhat of an anti-climax I have to say considering the level of work that had gone into achieving this. It's fair to say that my whole game had been targetted at this point after turn 200ish.

I was wondering whether it would possible to spice this event up? A level 15 unit is, in my experience, extremely hard to get - once you've got it I'd prefer one of two things to happen

Suggestion A: "What, you have freed Birgit? You can't be allowed to live!"

Spawning Birgit also spawns the chap who locked her up in prison, and he isn't happy. Acting like the 4 horseman (but perhaps already promoted to level 15-20) he struts around your kingdom destroying cities as and when he can (City Raider promo I, II and III essential). Perhaps destroying this chap could be a victory condition similar to the Avatar of Wrath?

Suggestion B: "You have freed Birgit, now feel the wrath of hell"

Spawning Birgit opens gates accross the world where hellspawn begin to pour into the world. I'm not sure what/how you would stop the stream or whether this could result in a victory condition - I'll leave that to you all to decide

Thoughts?

Dan

 

[Humakty]

The chap who put Brigit in her prison is Bhall if I remember well. I don't want her to come and punish me, it would be very brutal and very short, methinks. But it's true she could send in some Balors.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I wish people would read up on the lore a bit more before making such suggestions. Also, it is spelled Brigit, not Birgit.


The Goddess who imprisoned Brigit could not come to fight you without breaking the Compact. I don't think she would even be allowed to send Balors after you unless you were already corrupt enough for her to have some claim to your soul.


I am of the opinion that only Good aligned players should be able to free Brigit (and that Evil players should be able to free Odio from Odio's Prison instead; of course, Odio is crazy so he will turn barbarian if you don't keep giving him people to kill). Brigit (and Odio) should also be made much stronger, at the very least having Flying and Blitz. If it didn't mean she would be siding with the AC demons I'd say I might let non-Good players release her as a barbarian unit. (You don't think it would be worth it to create a new civ that is at was with all evils civs just for her, do you?) She refused to turn evil for her goddess, so why should she turn evil for a mere mortal?

It could also be interesting if the unit that tries to free her could fail, and get stuck in the Ring itself.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

It could also be interesting if the unit that tries to free her could fail, and get stuck in the Ring itself.

That could be an interesting mechanic but make it happen always. So you would be trading your level 15 regular unit for a unique hero. Of course, she would have to be made more powerful. Or just start her with 100xp so you would then be trading a level 15 unit for a level 10 (IIRC) immortal hero.

 

[Demus]

tbh, i don't find it that tough to get a unit to lvl 15, if you make sure you defend it properly. Midgame heroes like rathus are especially useful for this task, even more so if you're using a charismatic leader.

While i agree her strength could be upped a notch, she's already a very strong addition to your army. It's a hero with a base strength of 9, capable of using weapons, with whom you don't need to bother about keeping her alive (she's immortal after all).

 

[Fenboy]

tbh, i don't find it that tough to get a unit to lvl 15, if you make sure you defend it properly. Midgame heroes like rathus are especially useful for this task, even more so if you're using a charismatic leader.

While i agree her strength could be upped a notch, she's already a very strong addition to your army. It's a hero with a base strength of 9, capable of using weapons, with whom you don't need to bother about keeping her alive (she's immortal after all).

I completely agree here.

 

[Corlis]

It's a hero with a base strength of 9, capable of using weapons, with whom you don't need to bother about keeping her alive (she's immortal after all).

Does she have perma-immortality like the Immortals, or is it a one-shot thing like Hyborem?

Also, here's hoping that she gets some screen time in the scenarios...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Brigit's immortality is like an Immortal's, not from the promotion; she can be killed permanently if she dies twice in one turn, but she could die once per trun for thousands of turns and keep coming back.

 

[DarkxL0rd]

i liked her. (it was no problem with alazkan, he's an xp whore) however, i think that her model leaves something to be desired. just like any hero, she is a force to be reckoned with, after leveling a bit. and who doesnt want another uber-strong hero to join their ranks. i say leave it the way it is.

 

[zup]

But she still needs flight. Pereferably so I can toggle between walk and flight for roads. She has wings after all. What are they, decorations? Yes they were burned but she is immortal in the way Os-Gabella is, right? (aka, invincible) I'm pretty sure they have plenty of time to grow back during AoI. I'd do it myself if I could figure out how.

She could use a higher level of fire affinity too. Archangel of the Angel of fire and she has lower affinity than Chalid? (Ok, I have no idea who Chalid is, perhaps it fits.) But that's something I can do myself.

 

[kumquatelvis]

Only twice ever have I had someone reach level 15 when I wasn't Charismatic, and one of those was Grigori hero with ridiculous luck and the other was a Vampire. Maybe level 13 or 14 would be more reasonable? On the other hand, I guess it's not bad to have really difficult to achieve goals.

As for only good civs being able to rescue her; it's easy to imagine that centuries of imprisonment she's have gone crazy, or perhaps crushed by despair as havign betrayed her god. An evil civ could easily take advantage of that.

 

[Annex]

With Rosier, Valin, Kithra, and Magnadine I usually have no problem getting to level 15. Once they get blitz you can really rack up the xp.

 

[Corlis]

Brigit's immortality is like an Immortal's, not from the promotion; she can be killed permanently if she dies twice in one turn, but she could die once per trun for thousands of turns and keep coming back.

Ah, cool, I have to try and pick her up one game...

For getting to 15, I figure a Great Commander + Valor + Blitz = Win for this one. Just send them against weak foes, and back them up.

 

[rocklikeafool]

The chap who put Brigit in her prison is Bhall if I remember well. I don't want her to come and punish me, it would be very brutal and very short, methinks. But it's true she could send in some Balors.

That'd be chapess, man. Bhall is a chick.

 

[Saytr]

I really think Brigit should have fire magic, including ring of flames and pillar of fire. Her affinity should also be made larger.

@ rlaf

MC already pointed out Bhall was a goddess.

 

[Demus]

about the exp: just try shadows, dwarven for even greater effect. Combat first, drill second, then blitz, after that they're strong enough to take down champions defending cities pretty much unscratched. You're missing out on march though.

I find rathus is pretty good at racking up exp as well, if used correctly (try a OCC survival challenge as the sidar, found CoE and you'll find out why). Basically, marksman+invisibility+blitz is amazing for exp gaining. Magnadine is great as well, that much movement + blitz + high base strenght = win

The only civ i recon will do even better is the FF's Scion's of patria, under the risen emperor. The promo unlocked at combat 4 is simply gamebreaking, those units become as unkillable as immortals.

 

[Sarisin]

I like the mini-quest to free Brigit the way it is, I guess. Although I think it would be interesting to have a similar quest with Odio's Prison as suggested by the Magister.

I think it does take a bit of effort to get a unit to Level 15 (especially now that the 100 XP cap on killing barbs is there). Yes, you need to attach a Great Commander or have a lot of wars.

One problem I am having is bad luck in even getting Brigit in my game. I usually seem to get the Mirror and I'm not sure how that works, but no Brigit.

 

[Annex]

One problem I am having is bad luck in even getting Brigit in my game. I usually seem to get the Mirror and I'm not sure how that works, but no Brigit.

The Ring of Carcer only appears on snow terrain. But I agree with you. I have plenty of that in my games but it is very rare that I will have that unique feature.

 

[JameyM]

But she still needs flight. Pereferably so I can toggle between walk and flight for roads. She has wings after all. What are they, decorations? Yes they were burned but she is immortal in the way Os-Gabella is, right? (aka, invincible) I'm pretty sure they have plenty of time to grow back during AoI. I'd do it myself if I could figure out how.

There are very few flying units in the game (and quite a few with wings - Manticores and Hyborem spring to mind). Changing that would be a major balance change, so it would need to be done very carefully.

What I'd love would be to have the Griffons train into a Griffon rider recon unit so that I could put Sentry 2 on them and stick them up on peaks for truly ludicrous sight ranges.

 

[Verdian]

I am fine with having to just get a unit to level 15 to rescue Brigit. That is usually a feat in itself. I think the idea of losing the unit that rescues her is great, though. That would really make it a challenge, as most people would not want to lose a hero and would instead have to level up a normal unit. If that is added, she should get the hero promotion so she can gain levels faster/easier to compensate for the loss(I don't think she has it right now, but I forget).

I am also a huge fan of MCs idea for only good being able to free her, evil getting Odio, and neutral getting nothing (pick a side, you bum, it's the end of the world!). But there have been other threads about that.