Blaze's FfH MaxMod

[xanaqui42]

Really? I find that surprising. The combat odd generations are notoriously bad. It is rare, but it happens a surprising amount of time considering. The team for Smarter Orcs are working on some potential changes to increase the reliability and realistic outcome for combat odds, not sure where they are at on that sub-project, but I'll be including it if it makes it into their Vanilla releases.

I'll update you on Smarter Orcs combat (spoiler so that anyone who want to stay on topic can easily ignore the rest):

Spoiler :

1) Smarter Orcs never had the odds generation defect that occurred somewhere during 0.23 (and is present in 0.23c). To remove said defect, use the following in getCombatOdds (note that if you want step 2, this is redundant):

	iAttackerStrength = pAttacker->currCombatStr(NULL, NULL, NULL, true);
	iAttackerFirepower = pAttacker->currFirepower(NULL, NULL, true);

2) If you want the defender's resistances to work almost perfectly (exception: an attacker's strength can't be reduced below 0.01 due to a defender's resistances), I did a short write-up here. This has been in since Smarter Orcs 0.11

3) There are some odds fixes which I consider to be defects, but others may not. Specifically, Smarter Orcs accounts for Stoneskin and Lifespark. I can write up how, if you desire (note, however, that to simplify this calculation, I also changed Lifesparks so that multiple could sacrifice themselves in a single combat round). This has been in since Smarter Orcs 0.08

4) There is a group of changes in Smarter Orcs (since 0.08, fixed in 0.13) allowing different combat parameters. Actually changing those parameters requires an XML change.

I should also note a few things if you're merging in Smarter Orcs code.
1) Smarter Orcs is large (at least on the C++ side). It may be easier to merge your changes into Smarter Orcs than vice versa.
2) Smarter Orcs is still slow. 0.14 is much faster than 0.01, but there's a long way to go. On the plus side, a few things are actually faster in Smarter Orcs than FfH II (or, indeed, even Vanilla).
3) There is a significant apparent defect density in Smarter Orcs. I try to squash all reported defects, but I can't believe that they're all found, yet.

 

[Caradoc]

Thanks Blaze, Calavente, and Htaed M'i (how do you say that?) for clearing things up. I'll keep plugging away with the Werewolves. Does it make a difference whether you kill the Warrior type Barbs or Animals? Most of my kills were Lions and Bears. In the Tower end-game scenario, I did not have alliances with any AIs but did have trades and open borders. It's hard to see why declaring war on me would have the cascade effect of AIs declaring war on each other. BTW: the Towers were just too easy with the Kuriotates. I had each of my 4 hubs build one each and stockpiled 3 Great Engineers for the last one. I finished in 208 and could probably have done it sooner if I'd just concentrated on the Towers.

 

[jwin]

I don't know if you have changed anything with the war scripts, but the two games I have played have been relatively peaceful. I have had only one war declared on me, and there is also not much fighting going on elsewhere.

I agree that the towers might be too easy the way you have it set up. For two of the towers, I didn't bother to get any of the mana to speed things up. I just use big cities and soldiers of kilmorph and am able to build them relatively quickly, then will be able to move on to the tower of mastery.

The game I am in now is with the Clan, and I think their workers are slow. But even taking that into consideration, I think the 4 turns for road may be too long.

Sorry to just give negative feedback, I like everything else. Keep it up.

 

[Htaed M'i]

Yeah my games have been peaceful to, even with Agressive AI on.. Don't know..

In regards to my name, read it back words.

I agree though, 4 turns for roads is a lil annoying, considering it takes several more turns for other improvments. It take a long time to improve the tiles, and connecting citites.

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

Not sure what to say About the towers being easy to build.. in fact, I think I put the cost at nearly double the original cost, and the way those production bonuses work (I think I am going to put this the right way), they are not compound, they are simple, so 33% boost drops to 67% of cost, and the next 33% reduction makes it 44%, not 33%.. you see? I suppose I could limit it to 2 production bonuses, but jwin says he neglected the bonuses altogether! I jsut don't see any way to "fix" this, other than boost the cost again.. but that doesn't feel right.. I think you all just stumbled on a quick strategy to strike a win! but that doesn't seem especially fun to me


I am not sure how much influence driven war may effect the overall aggressiveness of the AI. Honestly, I added it as sort of a stepping stone to getting a serious AI improvement scheme in( AKA Smarter Orcs). I am starting the merge here shortly, as Xan and team just recently started updating to 23c, so hopefully, time bearing, we will have a Smarter AI, instead of a Influence driven one (not to take anything away from Sevo and his team, but Xan is working from an FfH specific standpoint, so will be better tuned for us).

I'll adjust the roads back to standard build times, as that seems to be a popular suggestion.

cheers!

EDIT :: Okay, Patch up and notes in 2nd post as usual!

 

[jwin]

I think the tower issue isn't so much the lesser towers being too fast, but that you can easily build them all for a tower victory. I think the pendulum has swung too far. In the original (Light), you had to control most of the world's nodes as well as a few wonders to build the towers. Now (MaxMod), you could have just a few cities and no extra nodes and still build the tower of mastery.
I do like the concept of them providing mana, it makes a real reason to build them even without the tower victory condition.
I'm not sure how to balance the improvement on the lesser towers (which I think are better) to the ease you can start the last tower.

 

[snarko]

Not sure what to say About the towers being easy to build.. in fact, I think I put the cost at nearly double the original cost, and the way those production bonuses work (I think I am going to put this the right way), they are not compound, they are simple, so 33% boost drops to 67% of cost, and the next 33% reduction makes it 44%, not 33%.. you see? I suppose I could limit it to 2 production bonuses, but jwin says he neglected the bonuses altogether! I jsut don't see any way to "fix" this, other than boost the cost again.. but that doesn't feel right.. I think you all just stumbled on a quick strategy to strike a win! but that doesn't seem especially fun to me

The resource provide a bonus to construction, not a decrease in cost. Assuming no other bonuses than mana with one mana it will take ~75% as long to build. With two ~60% and three ~50%. Bonuses are cumulative.

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

Right! Thanks Snarko.. I knew what I wanted to say about it, just couldn't get it put together right... I knew as soon as I wrote it that my numbers seemed goofy too.. glad I don't do any of my own math around here!

Cheers!

 

[Caradoc]

The new Tower costs seem about right for their value. If they cost much more, it would not usually be worth it. The problem is the ease of reaching the victory condition and there are a couple of ways to attack that. One would be to make the Tower of Mastery a project, rather than a wonder. That way, you could not shortcut construction by stockpiling Great Engineers. Another would be set a Technology requirement for it. As is, you need very little research to get to the Technologies for the first four, and this allows you to shove everything into production. A final possibility would be to require a special unit to be built, like an Overlord, to conclude the victory.

And speaking of roads, what would you think about adapting the Railroad code to provide an upgrade, maybe twice the movement for twice the cost? Or even an improvement that would allow fast travel down a river?

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

Not a bad Idea Charles! I kind of like the idea of making it a project. But that begs whether or not its companion the Alter of Luonnotar should be moved also.. though in that case you need a number of Great people AND a tech req for the final building.
Maybe do something similar? Require a Great Sage to build a "Foundation" for the
Tower, then set a higher tech for the Tower itself? I'm thinking moving it to a project would actually be much harder than it sounds.

As for roads, and here I just made them easier to build again... give an inch... j/k! Seriously it has been suggested before, but I kind of agree with the the previous arguments against doing anything with it, primarily, in terms of thematics or flavor, it would be a stretch to include it. Plus, we have the Obsidian Gates(and The Nexus wonder to go with them) to greatly speed travel.
Then again... I'll think about it. If I can get an appropriate graphic... perhaps a "Paved" road wouldn't be out of bounds. They would cost a huge amount of time, maybe even require some sort of sacrificial "slave" unit to complete? hauling stone around the countryside and completing a cobbled road large enough to improve trade and troop movements would cost lives, and be hugely expensive in terms of time and resources given the technology level given in the FfH world... I'll look around.

Okay, in other news, I have the current revision of Smarter Orcs into my test bed over here. Initial tests, I haven't had any errors related to the merge yet... so thats good. I am going to put it through its paces a little bit more, but I'll release it soon so you folks can have a go at it!

Cheers!

 

[Caradoc]

Is there a write up that tells about Pastures, Terraces, Dwarvish Mines, and other new improvements? And do the techs and civics that modify output of towns, farms etc have any effect on these?

I've got a bunch of starving Dwarves that are depending on me to figure this out.

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

Hmm... I assumed these were pretty straight forward really... when in game, it tells you how the yields will change when you are on any given Tile.
The easy answer (for me), is that I took these from an earlier version of Maniacs modmod (I think its still included), so there should be more documentation there. The only difference I made was to have dwarves build no farms, and only terraces(though they have the same yield modifiers and ability to access farmable resources) so thats really just a flavor change. Dwarven mines have the same modifiers as a regular mines, and pastures have their own tech modifiers.

Testing still going well, no major crashes with Smarter Orcs. Will probably release an alternate download, perhaps just a patch if I can get aways with it, sometime in the next day or 2.

Cheers!

 

[Caradoc]

I appreciate your patience and I must be exceptionally dim, but I still don't see how to build a Terrace. The option is supposed to open up with Construction, but it is not available to either an Elf or Dwarf worker, on Hill or Flat, Wooded or Bare. What am I missing here?

 

[Pocus]

warning! 23c4 patch is reported to having TROJAN 32 virus! (AVAST! anti virus, latest signatures)

 

[Holger]

warning! 23c4 patch is reported to having TROJAN 32 virus! (AVAST! anti virus, latest signatures)

NOD32, the latest signatures, doesn't confirm that info.

 

[Pocus]

Perhaps not your, but mine does confirms, and the latest signatures are on. I won't take the chance. Better safe than sorry.

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

Sorry Pocus, I don't know what your issue is, but I just checked my Source and downloaded fresh and tested that with my copy of AVG and found no problems. I have a DB dated the same date as yours.

Anyone else have problems with this file?

Cheers!

 

[Pocus]

Avast false positive then? I prefer that, sure.

 

[Htaed M'i]

Ok, I've been without the internet for a few days, but these are the issuses I've had with the game since.

1st: I couldn't build Losha Vales with the Calabim. It says that the unit is unbuildable for my civilization.

2nd: Shadow Wolf and Radier King have a pink box where the "picture" goes. not the unit picture at the top, but the picture below that.

3rd: Treant has this TXT_KEY_UNIT_PLACEHOLDER_STRADEGY under Sid's tips

Also, I thought that with Total Victory, that only the conquest victory would be winable before the time was up for the Total Victory? I'm asking this because every victory is winning for me.

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

Was out of town, sorry for the delay..
The patch link is now up and running. Going to be really busy catching p after being away, but I don't like the Calabim not having a hero available, so I'lll look at that as soon as I have a moment.

Cheers!