Blockade changes

[SirJethro]

Has anyone really been effective using harbor blockades against large opponents. To me, it just requires too many darn ships to block every single coastal tile to all the cities with harbors. This is my opinion:

If I put a ship in ANY SINGLE coastal square within a city's radius, and that ship is uncontested (ships inside the city don't count), then that harbor is effectively blockaded. Let's be realistic: historically, a country hasn't had to stack it's battleships end to end to blockade a country, they just need them close enough and in sufficient force to kill anything that comes within range.

Thoughts? Probably not something that can even be modded, but I thought I would rant for a bit.

 

[joycem10]

like it alot. would do a bit towards making naval units moe useful.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I think it's the best idea for blocading I've seen this far.

However, for cities straddling an isthmus, you should have to blocade on both sides, and if the city touches two separate bodies of water, a ship only breaks trade routes thru' the body of water it is in.

(By "contested", I assume you mean that there's a "blocade-breaking" ship from the city's civ within the city radius. Galleons and Transports should perhaps be unable to blocade or contest.)

If anybody from Firaxis is reading this; I really do want to see this in any coming patch or expansion to Civ III, or failing that, in Civ IV!

 

[SirJethro]

Yeah, good points. Also, to refine this a little further, it is assumed that for the ship to create a blockade condition, you would need to be at war.

Also, your point about the transport ships is good to. I would say they couldn't initiate or break a blockade (unless they want to attempt a fight).

 

[joycem10]

how about giving privateers the ability to blockade a port during preacetime with the same conditions and limitations?

 

[GI Josh]

I agree 100% - any ship with attack value >1 should be able to blockade by being within it's movement rate of the port. This would make blockades feasible and thus force naval combat - a maritime power would need a navy to keep it's ports clear, and a would-be blockader would need a navy to back up it's blockading ships. Plus privateers would become much more important, as they could blockade anonymously.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by joycem10
how about giving privateers the ability to blockade a port during preacetime with the same conditions and limitations?

I have been saying this since December: the real purpose of privateers and subs is not to attack enemy warships (or to blockade); it is TO ATTACK ENEMY MERCHANT SHIPPING ON HIS TRADE ROUTES.

But we could have a hundred privateers on a trade route and it would make no difference.

This is another reason why a World War One or Two scenario is not feasible. The Germans almost won both wars with U-Boats attacking Allied supply ships. Can't do that in Civ 3.

All of this Firaxis didn't understand when they designed the game, and still refuses to fix it.

 

[GI Josh]

Originally posted by Zouave


I have been saying this since December: the real purpose of privateers and subs is not to attack enemy warships (or to blockade) . . .

Then why the need to say it again? and again? and again? The thread is entitled "blockade changes" not "repeated dribble from other threads".

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by SirJethro

If I put a ship in ANY SINGLE coastal square within a city's radius, and that ship is uncontested (ships inside the city don't count), then that harbor is effectively blockaded.

Good idea. The mere presence of enemy ships for at least one turn should cut the trade.

 

[d3dash]

I belive there should be a blockade command for that one ship, a ship mearly passing by an enemy port would not be in the mood to be gunning at the other ships if they had orders to move to a specific destination. this would be a great idea, ala imperialism 1. where you could add multiple naval vessiels to the blockade, and in order for the enemy to break that blockade they would have to defeat the fleet to break the blockade. this also brings up another point of retreating ships, I can't remember if ships retreated from battle, any one know off hand if they do, if they don't then that would be another feature to add in with the blockadeing. just my $.10

 

[Yzman]

I actually never even try to use blockades. But your idea seems like agood one. I agree with the other poster about their being a bloackade order for a ship.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Great idea That sounds like it would work beautifully to simulate naval blockading. It would certainly force one to keep a strong navy even in a continential battle situation.

Perhaps even better would be a ratio of sea units/tiles in radius that would have to be met (ie: 1 ship required for every 3 tiles of water) for an effective blockade.

 

[Polaris]

I like this blockade idea a lot. I would also suggest that the costal fortress improvment be modified to have an offensive ability to actively combat blockading vessels rather than being a completely passive defensive improvemnt.

 

[Zouave]

OK, people generally like this idea. It is an improvement compared to Firaxis' lame idea about occupying every coastal tile for a blockade. And we have to have coastal fortresses improved - although remember no blockading vessels would come within range of the fortress so it would not effect a blockade. Fortresses were there to oppose attacks.

Now let's see how long it take for Firaxis to make the changes. Likely never;months at a minimum.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Having a port blockaded 100% by the mere presence of 1 ship is too harsh. but why not have it this way:

If a ship stays close for more than 1 turn (i.e. doesn't move for 1 full turn or more), the probability of the trade being cut is 25%, 45%, 65%, 85%, 90%, 95%, 99% for each additional turn. This is to be calcuated for every good transported - i.e. if you have four deals going, there is a high chance that 1 will be cut the first turn, 3 on the third.... and so on...

and even if the ship blockedes for a long time, occasional blockade runner cans till get through.

this effect could be upped by 5% for each additional ship.

How about it?

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Having a port blockaded 100% by the mere presence of 1 ship is too harsh. but why not have it this way:

If a ship stays close for more than 1 turn (i.e. doesn't move for 1 full turn or more), the probability of the trade being cut is 25%, 45%, 65%, 85%, 90%, 95%, 99% for each additional turn. This is to be calcuated for every good transported - i.e. if you have four deals going, there is a high chance that 1 will be cut the first turn, 3 on the third.... and so on...

and even if the ship blockedes for a long time, occasional blockade runner cans till get through.

this effect could be upped by 5% for each additional ship.

How about it?

Sounds even better. Naturally, those odds could then be modified by Coastal Fortresses.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Yup!

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Yup!

Nope!

Remember that resources and luxuries are all-or-nothing commodities. One ship should be enough for game purposes. If it is "only" one ship, let them destroy it.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Zachriel: then we get to the problem that you have to find that ship - not that easy if you mod movements up. Also, it would mean insane amounts of ships everywhere....

now if we were to get a patrol option......

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Zachriel: then we get to the problem that you have to find that ship - not that easy if you mod movements up. Also, it would mean insane amounts of ships everywhere....

now if we were to get a patrol option......

I would assume the ships would have to be within bombard range of the city, so they could wipe out any merchant vessels that attempted the run the blockade -- before they hit the open sea. That means (unmodded) they would have to be within two of the harbor.

I assume this was not meant to be a solution for all the problems of trade and piracy, but a simple modification of the blockade rules to make them actually usable. Blockading ships would have to stand off the enemy harbor, and be willing to take it on the chin in any attempt to break the siege by military means.