BNW AI cheating more in religion?

[Blitz Spearman]

I have played on immortal (always standard settings, but with ruins turned off) for a long time, and back in G&K one of the things that the AI wouldn't cheat too much was early game faith. If there was a pantheon before turn 10, I knew Boudicca was in the game. Between 10 and 15, it surely was Selassie. Sometime there was another one before turn 20, which I assumed was a lucky encounter with a CS. But apart from these, it was consistently possible to get first or second pantheon, by starting to build the Shrine at turn 10, immediately after researching Pottery. The Shrine would be finished at turn 20 in a flat start or turn 17 in a hill start, and I would almost always get at least the 15-faith-pantheon by turn 32~35.

Now in BNW I never, ever get one of the first three pantheons. I am always being pushed to the 25-faith-pantheon or beyond, and I keep seeing almost impossible stuff like a civ that is not Celts/Maya/Ethiopia getting a pantheon at turn 12~18. With ruins turned off, the only other explanation is finding not one, but two religious CS, which is something so rare that it never happened with me, in hundreds of hours of civ, but now every single game 1~3 AIs seem to get it.

I don't bother with the AI cheats that come later in the game, because then I had more room to overcome it with some strategy. But something like this, so early and with no chance whatsoever to make strategy to beat it? It is just frustrating

 

[Soil]

The only change is that Piety now comes in the ancient era and it's opener makes getting shrines twice as fast. This means the AI's production bonus sees them produce shrines with incredible ease, a second policy into Piety and they get double faith from it. This coupled with their extra starting settler if you're on Deity means they will get religions out much quicker. So it may seem that they are cheating when in actual fact they are not... I've simply noticed that the AIs love to go Piety if they found a religion and go spam happy with missionaries.

So yes, the religion game is more difficult if you're not focused on it but I've found that religion is less important in BNW as it were in G&K. I also play Immortal and haven't really bothered with religion at all since BNW and haven't felt much of a disadvantage. You simply can't be a jack of all trades anymore.

 

[Blitz Spearman]

Yes, but we are talking about turn 12~18. You can't get your first policy before turn 20. I really don't bother with the AI rushing the 200 faith threshold for the religion, because there is room for beating it with strategy (Piety itself, Liberty+Shrine Spam, taking a risk building more than one scout to try and find a religious wonder, etc). But they are getting faith from nowhere even before you are able to get your first policy.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Yes, but we are talking about turn 12~18. You can't get your first policy before turn 20. I really don't bother with the AI rushing the 200 faith threshold for the religion, because there is room for beating it with strategy (Piety itself, Liberty+Shrine Spam, taking a risk building more than one scout to try and find a religious wonder, etc). But they are getting faith from nowhere even before you are able to get your first policy.

Cost of policies scales with difficulty level, for example, the first policy costs 5 on Quick Settler, while it costs I think 10 on Quick Warlord, and goes to 15.

A culture ruin would be enough to grant the first policy.

 

[Blitz Spearman]

As I said, I play on standard speed with ruins turned off.

 

[liltrogdor]

Cost of policies scales with difficulty level, for example, the first policy costs 5 on Quick Settler, while it costs I think 10 on Quick Warlord, and goes to 15.

A culture ruin would be enough to grant the first policy.

That's what I was about to say too, but I was going to ask the question. Is it settler diff. for the Ai? Because on settler you get bonuses for yourself but the Ai is yourself on setter. If that makes any sense.

 

[HerrDoktor]

I saw something similar on King. Bismarck didn't even found a religion until the Middle Ages, then he started spamming missionaries and prophets like he was a new convert to Westboro Baptist Church. It ruined my game as Ethiopia, because I was forced to conquer him, making my UA and UU useless.

 

[FrostK]

As I remember in GNK on deity first prophet's cost for AI was 160.
Anyway AI starts with pottery, so if comp wish to go religion he will take pantheon faster than u.
With this new Piety tree AI often goes religion and it is not a cheat, in GNK there were just no such strategy for AI. In some games AI do not want to found religions, but it is rare.

 

[Halcyan2]

The AI's could also be getting lucky by finding Religious City States.

First to discover a Religious CS gets 8 faith (4 faith for others). You only need 10 faith to found the first pantheon (15 for the second). So you could theoretically found a pantheon after discovering two city states, which could theoretically happen before the Celts generate enough faith! Starting at Emperor, AI's get a free Scout, which may help them in finding those city states.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

That's what I was about to say too, but I was going to ask the question. Is it settler diff. for the Ai? Because on settler you get bonuses for yourself but the Ai is yourself on setter. If that makes any sense.

Pre-BNW the AI always played on the Chieftain level, with BNW they added a special "Default" difficulty only for AI.

 

[Matthew.]

Something does seem to have changed. Perhaps it is just Piety being moved to Ancient, but could be more.

I remember in G&K I purposely created a game with religion-heavy Civs to prove a point. I had Celts, Ethiopia, Maya, etc. The point was that you could finish Liberty and choose the free GP to be a prophet and get a religion on Immortal, all without needing to build a single shrine. Even under optimal conditions for the AI to grab all the religions, you'd still be able to finish Liberty in time.

Now, all the religions start going as soon as turn 40 and good luck getting anywhere near finishing Liberty before the rest get taken.

Perhaps it is just a string of bad luck, but the AI does seem to play the faith game significantly better (whether through cheats or not)

 

[Scott Jegg]

Just your bad luck I think. Like someone said, meet a couple of religious city states and they're most of the way towards their pantheon.

In my first couple of games as Poland, I hard build shrines as soon as I had finished pottery, and on two occasions I limped in with the first pantheon. Still find that happens occasionally, but not often.

Now I don't really bother about getting a religion on immortal unless I have a heavy faith producing pantheon. Sometimes I will still go for a pantheon if I have an abundant resource of something that I can get a bonus for, but I'm happy to lose it when the eventual religious wave comes from the AI. I'll wait till later in the game to start generating faith for GPs.