Border Patrol / Checkpoint

[Scientia]

Here's an idea I would like to see implemented: a border patrol / checkpoint.

Once built, it would garrison military units like a fortress, but would invoke a ZOC Civ II style. The more units assigned to the patrol, the greater the checkpoint's sphere of influence.

Essentially, this would deter any civ without a ROP from crossing your borders, although the civ attempting a breach would have a chance of success based on a number of factors (terrain, number of troops assigned to the patrol, etc)

The bp/cp would have a base chance of success modified by the units assigned to it, and would be upgradable with certain technological advancements (electricity, satellites, etc).

This would work great at chokepoints and serve as an advanced warning system of pending attacks. Any civ wishing to breach your borders that was detected would have to take out the bp/cp first (that means declaring war), giving you a certain amount of time to react. Of course, a sizable stack of enemy troops might accomplish this in one turn . . .

Any civ attempting a border breach that was caught would suffer a rep hit for an international incident.

Like others in this forum, I am irritated by the AIs ability to traverse your territory without permission, and there certainly must be alternatives to WAR to help deter this.

 

[History_Buff]

This would go really well with a border system allowing you to set fixed borders.

 

[BCLG100]

yeh or what would be even better if th AI stopped coming into our territory

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by BCLG100
yeh or what would be even better if th AI stopped coming into our territory

Which is one of the single most annoying and unacceptable parts of the game - constant border violations especially by settlers who take several turns to leave and even then teleport themselves to another part of your civ. It stinks.

You cross a border with ANY military unit it is an automatic act of war (you can be warned the instant you do it by the game). You leave a settler more than one turn in a rival civ's territory and it is an automatic act of war.

 

[Shabbaman]

Well, you still can declare war, but isn't it nice that the game offers you to NOT declare war?

 

[D9phoenix]

No, i just wish they would leave my territory before im forced to create more slave labor

 

[sabo]

Naaa, we don't need any border patrols, who would you get to work at places like McDonalds then?

 

[murewa]

scientia:

if the breach is successful do you propose that the unit/s be invisible to the breached civ? because it would be useless if the breach is successful yet you can see the units and declare war anyway.

 

[Baron Scot]

i would like to see some sort of wall or trench barrier built by workers.

mabey it just takes a turn to destroy or something, causing no dammage, just to keep people out

 

[Maple]

Originally posted by murewa
scientia:

if the breach is successful do you propose that the unit/s be invisible to the breached civ? because it would be useless if the breach is successful yet you can see the units and declare war anyway.

Mexicans cross the border into the United States every day, both countries know it, and they go to work in low-end stores in Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, etc. without legal immigration papers. Does anyone care? Noo...

 

[D9phoenix]

We care.. just there where to many to do anything about it. Well cept what the local restraunts did anyways. Waited until there workforce had a nice size check coming then they called in INS.. greedy little bastards. Happened twice while i lived in Arizona.

 

[Reboot]

Some suggestions:

1. After Nationalism, it should be possible to halt units from entering your territory. i.e. no more entering of another's (land) territory without first declaring war or RoP.

2. Failing which... any civ that does send units into another's territory without RoP or a formal declaration of war should take a rep hit.

3. Or, attacking units of a civ inside your territory representing a civ without RoP or War Declaration with you will not be classified as an Act of War, but an act of repulsion/expulsion - with a different set of response from the AI.

4. Create another diplomatic option that allow both civs to respect each other's territory, negating all effects of flipping and disallowing unit border trangressions.

5. Teach the AI to respect borders, dammit!

[2nd edit: found a HUGE mistake]

 

[jpowers]

If the Mexicans crossing the border into the US were military units or were looking to build a new Mexican city in Redondo Beach, US response would be swift and brutal. As it is, they are simply worker units who come over, build a few roads and then join existing cities, becoming malcontents after 1-2 generations.

I agree with the post about after Nationalism civs should respect each others' boundaries. Tijuana should have culture flipped to the US decades ago by Civ III logic.

 

[Scientia]

Originally posted by murewa
scientia:

if the breach is successful do you propose that the unit/s be invisible to the breached civ? because it would be useless if the breach is successful yet you can see the units and declare war anyway.

That is something I considered. Its complicated by the fact that there is no "fog of war" inside your cultural boundaries. I suppose some sort of covert operation command would have to made available for the appropriate units, otherwise its simply a breach in the open, which means the unit made it through and everyone knows about it.

Each turn a unit stayed in your territory would increase the chance of detection. Also, the more units in the breach, the greater the chance of detection. This would also have to be limited to foot units because I just don't see it likely that you could sneak a tank across a border.

Line of sight values would also have to be established for each city/unit. Any covert unit appearing within a units LOS would automatically be detected (you would assume that any unit wishing to remain covert would avoid cities and other units)

All of this is probably stretching the dynamics of the game a bit far. But oh well . ..

I agree that the AI should get the same choices the human player gets when it comes to being asked to leave. You get asked once, the next time you must leave or declare war.

And isn't it ironic for an AI to get their underwear all bunched up over one unit that hits the corner of their territory, when they are marching hundreds of units through your territory. Annoying, especially with the zulu . . .

To be honest, I usually just let the AI wander through my territory on the higher levels, because I'm no match for their military units, which are in greater number and more advanced than my own. Asking them to leave is simply asking them to declare war on you. I'm usually more successful in getting them to fight among themselves until I can catch up in tech. Of course, I'm still tweaking my strategy. . . .

But it would be nice if there were a way to physically stop units from violating your borders without solidifying your border with a line of troops.

 

[Scientia]

Originally posted by Reboot
3. Or, attacking units of a civ inside your territory and without RoP will not be classified as an Act of War, but an act of repulsion/expulsion - with a different set of response from the AI.

That's a great idea and one that I overlooked! Make it just like expelling the spy unit from your borders in Civ II.

Of course, what if it is a stack of units of superior force?

 

[Trinity]

Make a mad settler dash to the nearest choke point. Make a unit wall across the choke point. then build back into your continent.

Otherwise war mongerers like Gandhi will continually send settlers through to plant a city in that 3x3 tile area in the middle of your civ that's surrounded by your main cities. He'll say he's leaving but will just keep going on his merry way.

The thing that really gets me going is that if you "arrest" them, it's an act of unprovoked war, even though you asked them to leave three times already. And if the AI choice is to move out of your territory, it will move directly to that spot they were going, despite the fact that it was further away than where they came from.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

I would like to be able to set visa prices and anytime an AI unit crosses my border, I get that much money from them.

If they stay longer than their visa, I feel I ought to be able to throw them in jail with no legal council till one of my agents gets around to learning their language so I can interrogate them.

If other countries consider this a "war crime" too bad, because I will oppose their war crimes court.

Oh wait a minute, I was channeling Bush...

 

[BCLG100]

i think that a if a worker crosses over the border you get to keep it you know a bit like refugees you have to give 10 gold away to pretend that you are paying for living expenses and all that then you get to use it

 

[RegentBob]

first, i don't think there needs to be a special border patrol checkpoint or unit. just the fact that you can line up units along your border to keep people out is accurate enough for me. plus, you can build a fortification and call it your border patrol checkpoint if you want.

second, i do think it is dumb/ridiculous/unrealistic that when foreign units cross your borders, you are not given the option of immediately demanding their removal or a declaration of war. i know you can declare war anyway, but then it seems the computer opponents just think you're being a jerk.

and here's my big suggestion/complaint:

finally, when foreign units are leaving without declaring war, you should be able to pick the route they have to take when leaving. this would ensure they don't get to some enclave that you want to keep them out of. also it would take an accurate number of turns for them to get there, so that the opponent would not have control over the unit during that time.

i too dislike that foreign units can invade and are allowed to get far enough until they can teleport to the other side.