Thank you for the excellent write-up, I have much to learn by undertstanding your strategy.
BOTM 24 Final Spoiler
- Thread starter Niklas
- Start date
Thank you for the excellent write-up, I have much to learn by undertstanding your strategy.
Harbourboy
Deity
Gosha190 - awesome work. Thanks for sharing your strategies and tactics.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
America at its Finest?
I loved the Navy SEALs! I loved spamming the "Mall of America," haha! I finally got a feel for how Corporations work and how insidiously they can allow you to take over the world!
Abraham: "Oh, you'd like some Coal, would you Peter?"
Peter: "Yes, please! You are the best of the best, Abraham!"
Abraham: "Here you go! Oh, by the way, I have a few well-dressed friends with briefcases that will be coming around shortly. They have this amazing product called Aluminum that your housewives will love to buy up! Trust me, it's a Great Thing®!"
Peter: "Thank you, Mr. Lincoln, sir!"
Abraham: "Hahaha, what a sucker!"
Peter: "What was that?"
Abraham: "Oh, I said that you are a real winner!"
Peter: "We have a few choice words for you in Russian, too. I believe that they roughly translate to 'insidious jerk,' but you may pretend that they mean 'great and revered leader of the world!'"
Abraham: "Ahem. Yes, well. I think that I'll do (pretend) just that. Revered Leader of the World... I like the sounds of that..."
The Early Game
I started off teching towards Democracy. That way, I was able to revolt to a Republic early on, to go hand-in-hand with our Philosophical trait and with our immediately-free Engineer Specialists (due to every city starting with a Forge). Also, I quickly picked up The Statue of Liberty, for the additional Specialists and because I wasn't really going to expect France to be in the game and for them to gift it to me like in real life (they did end up being in the game, though).
Isabella then was polite enough to trade me Education and Economics. Sure, I missed out on the free tech from Liberalism and the free Great Merchant from Economics, but I had an extra Specialist in each city with extra Science output to make up for it. Plus, thanks to trading with Isabella, I was still able to switch to Free Market reasonably early in the game.
I'd switched to Pacifism from the start--from the end-game replay, it appears that the AI all switch on the next turn, giving the player an immediate half-turn advantage, assuming that one turn of AIs being in the initial (bad) set of Civic choices equals one half of a turn under better Civic choices.
I (foolishly?) WAITED to switch to my Religion, negating any value from being under Pacifism. Doing so meant that I got my first Great Person slower. However, it also meant that I could obtain Open Borders with all of our nearby neighbours. Since we only ended up with one nearby neighbour, the choice was questionable in retrospect, but then again, since it was the Religious-zealot Isabella, the choice probably worked in my favour.
Also, because I goofed around exploring with my second Settler, I was able to pick a spot reasonably close to Isabella. I was close enough that with some hastily-whipped Workers, I managed to pick up her religion. I worked to spread her religion around (Taoism) and pretty much sidelined my religion (Hinduism) for the entire game.
Hence, I earned the ability to get Education and Economics (and later a couple of other techs) in trade from her, without knowing any of the other AI.
Exploration--or Not
In fact, I kind of forgot about Caravels and Isabella was the one to do some trade brokering--but, since she was at Friendly status with me, I was able to get the benefit of her trades second-hand.
Of course, I totally took advantage of her, buying up her maps along with techs by selling her more expensive techs... and then popping out a Caravel when she only had about 15 squares left for Circumnavigation and thus beating her to that bonus, hahahahaha!
To Fight or to Build
I didn't really play a great Conquest-type of game... it took me ages to take Isabella down, since I was thoroughly enjoying a "builder mode." Still, I eventually took her out and decided that it would be better to destroy her completely than to have her as a vassal relegaged to the icy regions of the SW of our starting continent.
I built most of my cities instead of taking over Barb cities, which is also part of the reason that it took me a while to conquer our main continent.
I'd missed seeing the islands nearby (okay, I saw the nearest one where a Barb city had appeared), but I wasn't the first to Astronomy, due to missing Liberalism and someone else grabbing that tech. Anyway, those islands started to get settled first and I belatedly settled them or took over Barb cities on them, to get about a third of each island.
War against the Apostolic Palace Resident
A war with Gandhi was fought over the northern island and I managed to grab one of his cities there, complete with the Buddhist Apostolic Palace Religion. However, he quickly used the Apostolic Palace to cancel all wars against himself. Just as I was one turn from completing my first Buddhist Missionary, he pulled another cat out of the bag, demanding that city back via the Apostolic Palace. Well, well, no way, said I, choosing to DEFY the resolution, not really being aware of the drastic consequences of my action.
Sure, I kept the city. Yes, I was able to spam Buddhism around. Yet, strangely, I could not get a single Hammer out of my Buddhist buildings. Yes, you guessed it--defying a resolution is bad news, as not only do you get some temporary unhappiness, but you don't get any Hammer bonuses from the corresponding Religious Buildings! Arrrghhh!
Well, I'd been given my chance and Gandhi had requested that city one more time--this time, since I had enough votes, I simply voted "No," hoping that the "Abraham Lincoln is a villain" punishment would go away if I won a vote. Well, I won, but the Hammer bonus still did not appear. So, I went and did some online research. Sure enough, you actually have to vote "yes" on a vote and have it win in order to stop being considered a "villain"! Arrrghhh again!
What was worse was that my culture then became strong enough in the city captured from Gandhi that he couldn't (or just refused to) propose the "give me back my city" resolution again. I would have said "yes" this time... well, maybe.
But, I wasn't given the chance. So, for the rest of the game, I was the "villain," meaning that even with Buddhism as my main religion, I was left out in the cold--I didn't even get to participate in the "elect an Apostolic Palace Resident" votes! What a sham!
Time to Turn the Tables
Okay, so I was ready for some vindication. But I had no way of getting back on the good side. No way, except by the sword.
Or maybe I should say by the "beyond the sword weaponry," due to our advanced start. Gandhi's city of Delhi had to fall--fall into my hands. Only then, as the official owner of the Apostolic Palace, would I be able to "get back into the Religious game."
Therein lay my goal. But Gandhi played his cards well, collecting allies and teching well. So, I had to delay things by first conquering the Germans, letting Napoleon and Suleiman tear up Peter's lands, and then finally, bit-by-bit, picking off pieces of Suleiman before he could get big enough to vassalise the others.
Instead, Peter became Napoleon's vassal. Later, Suleiman threw in the towel and joined up with Napoleon, as well.
No worries--I was on friendly terms with Napoleon and he was more than happy to take his new buddies into a unified front against Gandhi. With the Germans and Spanish eliminated, it was the world against Gandhi.
Still, I had to keep my gains to a minimum, to avoid having Gandhi becoming Napoleon's vassal. I remember reading somewhere that a Diplomatic/Religious Victory needs three "teams." I am uncertain if this info is correct or if vassals count as being on the same or a different "team" as their masters, but I wasn't about to take any chances. Fortunately, it was my high-tech and Napeoleon and his cronies' low-tech vs Gandhi's high-tech, so they weren't able to take any of Gandhi's cities.
Would I Ever get to Vote?
It seemed to take forever for a vote to come up, long enough that I'd had to create a couple of liberated vassals just to avoid going over the Domination Land Limit. Again, I kept waiting, liberating and gifting cities back to Suleiman, just to keep the Domination Land Limit from being exceeded. Finally a vote appeared--but it wasn't for the Apostolic Palace Resident. Maybe I would finally be able to get rid of my "villain" status! Yes!
Or, no. Instead, Peter, who was Friendly with me by this point, decided that it would be in my best interest to go up against Gandhi for a Diplomatic (Religious) Victory vote! Okay! I would now save myself the time of having to get elected as Resident so that I could propose that resolution myself! Thank you, Peter! Peter, of course, voted me in, as did my two vassals. Ironically, Gandhi pulled a fast one on me and yanked Napoleon out of his favourite civic of Republic into Gandhi's favourite civic of Universal Suffrage, just on the very turn that the votes would be cast! Curses... there went Napoleon's vote! Would the votes be enough? Suleiman was sure to abstain, not liking either of us... and the vote came up... and I was a winner! Yaaaaaa! A Religious VILLAIN won the Apostolic Religious Victory! I checked on the turn after the game ended and sure enough, I STILL had not earned the extra Hammer bonus! So, I didn't get a single Hammer from the Apostolic Palace during the entire game and yet I won a Religious Victory. Try that one on for size!
Random Thoughts
The Partisans Event came up quite a bit (the enemy getting free military units when their city is razed). It was pretty painful to take over a city from Isabella, raze it due to bad placement, only to have Musketmen appear that would be able to immediately take out my City Raider Macemen and Trebuchets, since I hadn't brought any Musketmen of my own as defenders. I learned my lesson. Thus, when facing the same thing against Suleiman later in the game, I was prepared to fend off his "free" Infantry. I also ended up keeping more cities than I normally would, due to the high frequency I was seeing of this event being triggered.
I grabbed the Taj Mahal and figured that it was a fair trade for missing out on the free Great Merchant from Economics and free tech from Liberalism. Kudos to anyone who managed to grab all three!
Napoleon is an awesome ally. Before vassals came into play, I was able to bribe him to attack everyone else in the world at once. You have got to love that guy's hubris (excessive pride and self-confidence)!
I didn't bother to build any Religious Shines. I'd razed Isabella's Holy City due to poor placement and I hadn't spread my own religion around, so I used any Great Prophets that I obtained as creators of my Golden Ages. My Wallstreet City ended up only hosting Corporation Headquarters, but I didn't seem to be too bad off despite this potential loss of revenue from not pairing it up with a Holy Shrine.
I loved the Navy SEALs! I loved spamming the "Mall of America," haha! I finally got a feel for how Corporations work and how insidiously they can allow you to take over the world!
Abraham: "Oh, you'd like some Coal, would you Peter?"
Peter: "Yes, please! You are the best of the best, Abraham!"
Abraham: "Here you go! Oh, by the way, I have a few well-dressed friends with briefcases that will be coming around shortly. They have this amazing product called Aluminum that your housewives will love to buy up! Trust me, it's a Great Thing®!"
Peter: "Thank you, Mr. Lincoln, sir!"
Abraham: "Hahaha, what a sucker!"
Peter: "What was that?"
Abraham: "Oh, I said that you are a real winner!"
Peter: "We have a few choice words for you in Russian, too. I believe that they roughly translate to 'insidious jerk,' but you may pretend that they mean 'great and revered leader of the world!'"
Abraham: "Ahem. Yes, well. I think that I'll do (pretend) just that. Revered Leader of the World... I like the sounds of that..."
The Early Game
I started off teching towards Democracy. That way, I was able to revolt to a Republic early on, to go hand-in-hand with our Philosophical trait and with our immediately-free Engineer Specialists (due to every city starting with a Forge). Also, I quickly picked up The Statue of Liberty, for the additional Specialists and because I wasn't really going to expect France to be in the game and for them to gift it to me like in real life (they did end up being in the game, though).
Isabella then was polite enough to trade me Education and Economics. Sure, I missed out on the free tech from Liberalism and the free Great Merchant from Economics, but I had an extra Specialist in each city with extra Science output to make up for it. Plus, thanks to trading with Isabella, I was still able to switch to Free Market reasonably early in the game.
I'd switched to Pacifism from the start--from the end-game replay, it appears that the AI all switch on the next turn, giving the player an immediate half-turn advantage, assuming that one turn of AIs being in the initial (bad) set of Civic choices equals one half of a turn under better Civic choices.
I (foolishly?) WAITED to switch to my Religion, negating any value from being under Pacifism. Doing so meant that I got my first Great Person slower. However, it also meant that I could obtain Open Borders with all of our nearby neighbours. Since we only ended up with one nearby neighbour, the choice was questionable in retrospect, but then again, since it was the Religious-zealot Isabella, the choice probably worked in my favour.
Also, because I goofed around exploring with my second Settler, I was able to pick a spot reasonably close to Isabella. I was close enough that with some hastily-whipped Workers, I managed to pick up her religion. I worked to spread her religion around (Taoism) and pretty much sidelined my religion (Hinduism) for the entire game.
Hence, I earned the ability to get Education and Economics (and later a couple of other techs) in trade from her, without knowing any of the other AI.
Exploration--or Not
In fact, I kind of forgot about Caravels and Isabella was the one to do some trade brokering--but, since she was at Friendly status with me, I was able to get the benefit of her trades second-hand.
Of course, I totally took advantage of her, buying up her maps along with techs by selling her more expensive techs... and then popping out a Caravel when she only had about 15 squares left for Circumnavigation and thus beating her to that bonus, hahahahaha!
To Fight or to Build
I didn't really play a great Conquest-type of game... it took me ages to take Isabella down, since I was thoroughly enjoying a "builder mode." Still, I eventually took her out and decided that it would be better to destroy her completely than to have her as a vassal relegaged to the icy regions of the SW of our starting continent.
I built most of my cities instead of taking over Barb cities, which is also part of the reason that it took me a while to conquer our main continent.
I'd missed seeing the islands nearby (okay, I saw the nearest one where a Barb city had appeared), but I wasn't the first to Astronomy, due to missing Liberalism and someone else grabbing that tech. Anyway, those islands started to get settled first and I belatedly settled them or took over Barb cities on them, to get about a third of each island.
War against the Apostolic Palace Resident
A war with Gandhi was fought over the northern island and I managed to grab one of his cities there, complete with the Buddhist Apostolic Palace Religion. However, he quickly used the Apostolic Palace to cancel all wars against himself. Just as I was one turn from completing my first Buddhist Missionary, he pulled another cat out of the bag, demanding that city back via the Apostolic Palace. Well, well, no way, said I, choosing to DEFY the resolution, not really being aware of the drastic consequences of my action.
Sure, I kept the city. Yes, I was able to spam Buddhism around. Yet, strangely, I could not get a single Hammer out of my Buddhist buildings. Yes, you guessed it--defying a resolution is bad news, as not only do you get some temporary unhappiness, but you don't get any Hammer bonuses from the corresponding Religious Buildings! Arrrghhh!
Well, I'd been given my chance and Gandhi had requested that city one more time--this time, since I had enough votes, I simply voted "No," hoping that the "Abraham Lincoln is a villain" punishment would go away if I won a vote. Well, I won, but the Hammer bonus still did not appear. So, I went and did some online research. Sure enough, you actually have to vote "yes" on a vote and have it win in order to stop being considered a "villain"! Arrrghhh again!
What was worse was that my culture then became strong enough in the city captured from Gandhi that he couldn't (or just refused to) propose the "give me back my city" resolution again. I would have said "yes" this time... well, maybe.
But, I wasn't given the chance. So, for the rest of the game, I was the "villain," meaning that even with Buddhism as my main religion, I was left out in the cold--I didn't even get to participate in the "elect an Apostolic Palace Resident" votes! What a sham!Time to Turn the Tables
Okay, so I was ready for some vindication. But I had no way of getting back on the good side. No way, except by the sword.
Or maybe I should say by the "beyond the sword weaponry," due to our advanced start. Gandhi's city of Delhi had to fall--fall into my hands. Only then, as the official owner of the Apostolic Palace, would I be able to "get back into the Religious game."Therein lay my goal. But Gandhi played his cards well, collecting allies and teching well. So, I had to delay things by first conquering the Germans, letting Napoleon and Suleiman tear up Peter's lands, and then finally, bit-by-bit, picking off pieces of Suleiman before he could get big enough to vassalise the others.
Instead, Peter became Napoleon's vassal. Later, Suleiman threw in the towel and joined up with Napoleon, as well.
No worries--I was on friendly terms with Napoleon and he was more than happy to take his new buddies into a unified front against Gandhi. With the Germans and Spanish eliminated, it was the world against Gandhi.
Still, I had to keep my gains to a minimum, to avoid having Gandhi becoming Napoleon's vassal. I remember reading somewhere that a Diplomatic/Religious Victory needs three "teams." I am uncertain if this info is correct or if vassals count as being on the same or a different "team" as their masters, but I wasn't about to take any chances. Fortunately, it was my high-tech and Napeoleon and his cronies' low-tech vs Gandhi's high-tech, so they weren't able to take any of Gandhi's cities.
Would I Ever get to Vote?
It seemed to take forever for a vote to come up, long enough that I'd had to create a couple of liberated vassals just to avoid going over the Domination Land Limit. Again, I kept waiting, liberating and gifting cities back to Suleiman, just to keep the Domination Land Limit from being exceeded. Finally a vote appeared--but it wasn't for the Apostolic Palace Resident. Maybe I would finally be able to get rid of my "villain" status! Yes!
Or, no. Instead, Peter, who was Friendly with me by this point, decided that it would be in my best interest to go up against Gandhi for a Diplomatic (Religious) Victory vote! Okay! I would now save myself the time of having to get elected as Resident so that I could propose that resolution myself! Thank you, Peter! Peter, of course, voted me in, as did my two vassals. Ironically, Gandhi pulled a fast one on me and yanked Napoleon out of his favourite civic of Republic into Gandhi's favourite civic of Universal Suffrage, just on the very turn that the votes would be cast! Curses... there went Napoleon's vote! Would the votes be enough? Suleiman was sure to abstain, not liking either of us... and the vote came up... and I was a winner! Yaaaaaa! A Religious VILLAIN won the Apostolic Religious Victory! I checked on the turn after the game ended and sure enough, I STILL had not earned the extra Hammer bonus! So, I didn't get a single Hammer from the Apostolic Palace during the entire game and yet I won a Religious Victory. Try that one on for size!
Random Thoughts
The Partisans Event came up quite a bit (the enemy getting free military units when their city is razed). It was pretty painful to take over a city from Isabella, raze it due to bad placement, only to have Musketmen appear that would be able to immediately take out my City Raider Macemen and Trebuchets, since I hadn't brought any Musketmen of my own as defenders. I learned my lesson. Thus, when facing the same thing against Suleiman later in the game, I was prepared to fend off his "free" Infantry. I also ended up keeping more cities than I normally would, due to the high frequency I was seeing of this event being triggered.
I grabbed the Taj Mahal and figured that it was a fair trade for missing out on the free Great Merchant from Economics and free tech from Liberalism. Kudos to anyone who managed to grab all three!
Napoleon is an awesome ally. Before vassals came into play, I was able to bribe him to attack everyone else in the world at once. You have got to love that guy's hubris (excessive pride and self-confidence)!
I didn't bother to build any Religious Shines. I'd razed Isabella's Holy City due to poor placement and I hadn't spread my own religion around, so I used any Great Prophets that I obtained as creators of my Golden Ages. My Wallstreet City ended up only hosting Corporation Headquarters, but I didn't seem to be too bad off despite this potential loss of revenue from not pairing it up with a Holy Shrine.
mabraham
Deity
roflmao
So, my initial plan was
Tech plan: Lib->Nationalism (free) -> Economics, Build Taj, for GA.
Maybe get GM too for 2nd GA ?
Settle the 2nd city towards where we think the AI is. Build some knights to try to weaken the AI, especially if he has no iron.
It ended up like
T2: 1445.
Settled in place,
Delayed the 2nd city until after religion founded.
Finally settled New York 7n3w of Washington claiming corn, iron and pigs.
Found Izzy, and while not close enough to rush, some knights may keep her in check until I can crush her.
I need to get a couple of spies in there to disconnect any iron she may have.
The first GE was going to pop apoplectic palace but someone beat me to it. So, I built the Sancracore instead.
The first GSci popped education, so I stand a chance of getting Lib 1st.
Turn 1535 50: Izzy left three workers building a fort on some gold, right next to my roving longbow. It was slightly early for war, but I couldn't resist doubling my workforce.
Turn 1560 55: Barcelona falls to two trebs and two knights. I loose one treb.
Now the plan is to keep Izzy in the dark ages while I buid up in the rest of the continent. I'll sue for peace once she's boxed in.
T57: Third GP is a profit for, er, profit.
T67: First to Lib, take Economics for GM and the road to corp. Stash the GM for Sushi, should
be popping a GE from new york which well stash for Mininc Inc.
And that was the end of the detailed notes. ...
I finished Izzy off early, and settled my continent. I was going to settle the two smaller continents in the north and east, but never made it.
The plan was to get Mining inc and Sushi to go for a corp powered victory of some kind.
In the end I decided to go for conquest, with no vassals (I probably should have vasalized some of them though.)
France attacked me early due to very low power, as I was still expanding, but they were soon beaten off. I did need to start a GA when I wasn't really ready though, which delayed my plan for early a Oxford/NP city. (never really worked as well as it might)
By the end Washington (I'd moved the capitol by then) was bringing in over 500 gold /turn due to a shrine and two corp HQs.
War started around the 1930s I think, and the last city was sacked in about 1970. Not the fastest finish I'm sure, but it was fun until we were in the slow grind against Germany. Once they fell, India and Suliman fell very quickly. At one point I was against the entire world !
The seals were very very good for naval attack of the coastal cities. For a large part of the war I owned the oceans simply because the AI had no coastal cities to build warships.
I built a few Malls, but only to keep people happy.
Tech plan: Lib->Nationalism (free) -> Economics, Build Taj, for GA.
Maybe get GM too for 2nd GA ?
Settle the 2nd city towards where we think the AI is. Build some knights to try to weaken the AI, especially if he has no iron.
It ended up like
T2: 1445.
Settled in place,
Delayed the 2nd city until after religion founded.
Finally settled New York 7n3w of Washington claiming corn, iron and pigs.
Found Izzy, and while not close enough to rush, some knights may keep her in check until I can crush her.
I need to get a couple of spies in there to disconnect any iron she may have. The first GE was going to pop apoplectic palace but someone beat me to it. So, I built the Sancracore instead.
The first GSci popped education, so I stand a chance of getting Lib 1st.
Turn 1535 50: Izzy left three workers building a fort on some gold, right next to my roving longbow. It was slightly early for war, but I couldn't resist doubling my workforce.
Turn 1560 55: Barcelona falls to two trebs and two knights. I loose one treb.
Now the plan is to keep Izzy in the dark ages while I buid up in the rest of the continent. I'll sue for peace once she's boxed in.
T57: Third GP is a profit for, er, profit.
T67: First to Lib, take Economics for GM and the road to corp. Stash the GM for Sushi, should
be popping a GE from new york which well stash for Mininc Inc.
And that was the end of the detailed notes. ...
I finished Izzy off early, and settled my continent. I was going to settle the two smaller continents in the north and east, but never made it.
The plan was to get Mining inc and Sushi to go for a corp powered victory of some kind.
In the end I decided to go for conquest, with no vassals (I probably should have vasalized some of them though.)
France attacked me early due to very low power, as I was still expanding, but they were soon beaten off. I did need to start a GA when I wasn't really ready though, which delayed my plan for early a Oxford/NP city. (never really worked as well as it might)
By the end Washington (I'd moved the capitol by then) was bringing in over 500 gold /turn due to a shrine and two corp HQs.
War started around the 1930s I think, and the last city was sacked in about 1970. Not the fastest finish I'm sure, but it was fun until we were in the slow grind against Germany. Once they fell, India and Suliman fell very quickly. At one point I was against the entire world !
The seals were very very good for naval attack of the coastal cities. For a large part of the war I owned the oceans simply because the AI had no coastal cities to build warships.
I built a few Malls, but only to keep people happy.
jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest conquest with an eye on the gold medal. Result: 1752AD conquest victory for an unremarkable amount of points.
About points: speed doesn't matter at all once you start so late, so Gold seekers should not try to win fast. At the end of the game my score was increasing, even though I had no corporation and wasn't really trying to get more cities or more pop.
About having fun: I really didn't enjoy this game very much. When I won in just 110 turns it was an anti-climax sensation. And then I realized I could have won in just 70 turns. This advanced start game feels just like a wargame, without anything related to civ in it, no research needed, no settlers needed... I can't deny I learned a lot, though.
How the fastest conquest game should be played:
T0- Revolt to slavery. Other civics too, you say? As you wish, it's optional. Research set on Astronomy.
T2- Settle 1 city near iron, the other near horses.
T3- Worker first, whipped, improves 1 food tile and many mines.
T20- 4 Knights built (chopped)
T25- Isabella is dead
T50- Astro in, slider to 0%, 12 or 16 knights built, whip 1 Galleon every 2 turns in Madrid.
T60- 2 civs have been vassalized after only taking 1 city. Dow all other civs just to let the time to be able to talk to you pass.
T70- All civs are vassalized, after losing something between 0 and 2 cities each.
How I played the game
Before playing: no time, no test game.
T1- Revolt to Bureau and slavery only. Research on PP, while thinking of "rifles before galleons".
T6- Worker whipped, second city settled with copper, I saw the iron but I was in a hurry to get the free border pop in the second city thanks to the free religion. Realize 0% slider before Academy is better. Worker chopping another one.
T8- Revolt to Castes+Pacif+Religion.
T13- Isabella is worker stolen, I consider attacking with 2lb against 1 but it looks risky.
T20- Realize what a push-over AIs will be, change research to Astro.
T23- GS for Academy, slider to 100%. Get my 1st Settler, chopping like crazy.
T28- 2nd worker steal, Isabella won't build Settler since she has no worker.
T30- 3rd city built around Iron, Library built. Trees are falling all around.
1500AD Stats: 3 cities, 17 pop, 6workers, 7units (1Kni), 4 strategic resources, 1 luxury resources, 2 health resources, 2 great persons, 0 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=49-43-92, 74 sustainable beakers per turn, 14 culture per turn, 33 great person points per turn, 180 gold. 1 religions. 1/1 cottages used, no new Techs: . 0 civs killed. 3 hours played.
T44- Launch GAge, revolt to slavery and theocracy. Dow Isabella.
T54- Who was Isabella?
T57- Farm over my best cottage to irrigate that corn. Whip settlers.
T60- Astro in. Research to 0% to save money for the "costly campaign". HE built.
1600AD Stats: 6+ cities, 29 pop, 7+workers, 15units (8Kni), 1Gall, 4 strategic resources, 3 luxury resources, 3 health resources, 3 great persons, 0 world wonders, 1 national wonders, food/production/commerce=94-71-85, 50 sustainable beakers per turn, 20 culture per turn, 32 great person points per turn, 75 gold. 2 religions. 0/3 cottages used, Astro, Educ: . 1 civs killed. 6 hours played.
T71- Stupidly build more cities. Stupidly decide to kill every Bismark city instead of vassalizing him. Stupidly being surprised of no having international trade routes when I'm in Merc.
T80- Who was Bismark? Build courthouses and all kinds of unnecessary things.
T84- Dow Sule and fail the first attack.
T89- Raze some small undefended cities, regrouping to take the capital, get surprised by his capitulation. Set all cities to build units to make new capitulations more likely.
T94- Dow Gandhi, try to disconnect his Iron but he is faster than me and he vassalizes before I can even approach his mine.
T98- Another 4 turns for regrouping, lost time. Dow Peter.
T102- AP voting tries to save his day, but Peter is faster and vassalizes before the votes are counted. I'm too timid to dow Napo before regrouping,w hich will delay my victory till he's ready to talk.
T103- Dow Napo.
T106- BUFFY alerts say his ready for capitulation, but he isn't ready for talking yet.
1750AD- Napo is ready for talking and vassalizing now. But I'm faster and take his last city anyway.
1752AD, I wonder why I razed all that cities when I have more than 2000g and I'm not even in the red.
Conquest victory could easily be sooner than 1650AD.
About points: speed doesn't matter at all once you start so late, so Gold seekers should not try to win fast. At the end of the game my score was increasing, even though I had no corporation and wasn't really trying to get more cities or more pop.
About having fun: I really didn't enjoy this game very much. When I won in just 110 turns it was an anti-climax sensation. And then I realized I could have won in just 70 turns. This advanced start game feels just like a wargame, without anything related to civ in it, no research needed, no settlers needed... I can't deny I learned a lot, though.
How the fastest conquest game should be played:
T0- Revolt to slavery. Other civics too, you say? As you wish, it's optional. Research set on Astronomy.
T2- Settle 1 city near iron, the other near horses.
T3- Worker first, whipped, improves 1 food tile and many mines.
T20- 4 Knights built (chopped)
T25- Isabella is dead
T50- Astro in, slider to 0%, 12 or 16 knights built, whip 1 Galleon every 2 turns in Madrid.
T60- 2 civs have been vassalized after only taking 1 city. Dow all other civs just to let the time to be able to talk to you pass.
T70- All civs are vassalized, after losing something between 0 and 2 cities each.
How I played the game
Before playing: no time, no test game.
T1- Revolt to Bureau and slavery only. Research on PP, while thinking of "rifles before galleons".
T6- Worker whipped, second city settled with copper, I saw the iron but I was in a hurry to get the free border pop in the second city thanks to the free religion. Realize 0% slider before Academy is better. Worker chopping another one.
T8- Revolt to Castes+Pacif+Religion.
T13- Isabella is worker stolen, I consider attacking with 2lb against 1 but it looks risky.
T20- Realize what a push-over AIs will be, change research to Astro.
T23- GS for Academy, slider to 100%. Get my 1st Settler, chopping like crazy.
T28- 2nd worker steal, Isabella won't build Settler since she has no worker.
T30- 3rd city built around Iron, Library built. Trees are falling all around.
1500AD Stats: 3 cities, 17 pop, 6workers, 7units (1Kni), 4 strategic resources, 1 luxury resources, 2 health resources, 2 great persons, 0 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=49-43-92, 74 sustainable beakers per turn, 14 culture per turn, 33 great person points per turn, 180 gold. 1 religions. 1/1 cottages used, no new Techs: . 0 civs killed. 3 hours played.
T44- Launch GAge, revolt to slavery and theocracy. Dow Isabella.
T54- Who was Isabella?
T57- Farm over my best cottage to irrigate that corn. Whip settlers.
T60- Astro in. Research to 0% to save money for the "costly campaign". HE built.
1600AD Stats: 6+ cities, 29 pop, 7+workers, 15units (8Kni), 1Gall, 4 strategic resources, 3 luxury resources, 3 health resources, 3 great persons, 0 world wonders, 1 national wonders, food/production/commerce=94-71-85, 50 sustainable beakers per turn, 20 culture per turn, 32 great person points per turn, 75 gold. 2 religions. 0/3 cottages used, Astro, Educ: . 1 civs killed. 6 hours played.
T71- Stupidly build more cities. Stupidly decide to kill every Bismark city instead of vassalizing him. Stupidly being surprised of no having international trade routes when I'm in Merc.
T80- Who was Bismark? Build courthouses and all kinds of unnecessary things.
T84- Dow Sule and fail the first attack.
T89- Raze some small undefended cities, regrouping to take the capital, get surprised by his capitulation. Set all cities to build units to make new capitulations more likely.
T94- Dow Gandhi, try to disconnect his Iron but he is faster than me and he vassalizes before I can even approach his mine.
T98- Another 4 turns for regrouping, lost time. Dow Peter.
T102- AP voting tries to save his day, but Peter is faster and vassalizes before the votes are counted. I'm too timid to dow Napo before regrouping,w hich will delay my victory till he's ready to talk.
T103- Dow Napo.
T106- BUFFY alerts say his ready for capitulation, but he isn't ready for talking yet.
1750AD- Napo is ready for talking and vassalizing now. But I'm faster and take his last city anyway.
1752AD, I wonder why I razed all that cities when I have more than 2000g and I'm not even in the red.
Conquest victory could easily be sooner than 1650AD.
Ronnie1
Deity
I was going for the COW....but it was taking for EVER..and I didn't have time to finish. Then I forgot to retire and submit on time. 
My score was increasing by about 200-300 points per turn at the end using Sushi, and you really could pack a lot of cities in if you tried.
My score was increasing by about 200-300 points per turn at the end using Sushi, and you really could pack a lot of cities in if you tried.
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Q1: What was the score on that version?
Q2: So why didn't you submit that one ...
( $%##*&^%@# RULES!
... )dV
PS: Tonight I should have time to briefly describe my race to beat the clock last night.
Dynamic
But not hurry
Yes, may be. I've never tried Advanced Start before and was afraid for protective Muskets. And, of course, it's Prince...
Congratulations, jesusin!
Htadus
A and L's dad
This was an interesting game and enjoyed the new ideas and all the interesting reading at the SGOTM site. Thank you for all the great discussions the players used in that game.
First Session
As most folks, I revolted to Buro, Pacifism, Merc and Slavary. Started on Education for Astro from Lib. Settled on the starting spot after checking south area. Looked for gold or gems with the other settler. After founding Hindu (I think) in the capital, the second settler came back to CornPigIronOais site since I did not like the crappy gold site. (I hear food is more important than gold.)
We met Izzy and planned to get rid of her asap. A large force of 3 HA, 3LB and 4 trebs took her out and kept her two cities by 1625AD. Once developed, her second city provided about 30-60 gold throughout the game.
First 2 GE's build the AP and U of Sancore. Switch civics to CS and HR in 1580. Then it was on to fast teching to head to space. After taking Astro from Liberalism, I used a GA to speed Nationalism and our first GM sped up Economics for the free GM who in turn was used to speed up Constitution, in 1742 we changed civics to Freemarket and Representation. Session ended realy late that night after learning Railroads in 1866.
Tech Dates
Session 2: T minus 8 hours
Where did the time GO?
I needed a change of plan to finish the game. Start the game after a long time to realize there is no way to get an AP Victory since I have too many (18) large Cities with the religion and benefitting about approximately 8 hammers and flask each. Space would take long due to all the techs (I was wrong about this). Monger VC's take too much time. So to the UN then.
Start teching toward UN. Crap Sully DoW Gandhi and Vassel him. Ok Peter and Biz like me better. Sully attack Peter and Vasselize him. That SOB. Complete UN in 1905 (slowly and delayed due to forgetfulness) and get elected as SG. First Vote miss by about 40 points with Biz and without Napolian.
Pay Biz to attack Nappy and 5 transporters full of SEAL's take out Nappy. Give a few cities to Biz. Next vote Biz abstain. Bastard. Switch Civic to Nationalism and win in 1951. T minus 3 Hrs and I have to work in 4 hours. Upload file and I go to bed. I was very tired at work today but a busy day can make you forget about being tired.
Session 2 Techs
I was not too far from getting to space. So I should have stayed with my Original Plan. I used a very hybrid economy in this game and had an awsome National Park City with 17 or 18 free specialists. it was just beautiful.
Thanks for a very interesting game and please can we turn off them Random Event Thingy. Had so much bad luck with fires, lootes, hurricanes and so on and so forth.
I noted that in this game, with the free Astro, I could have gone on a Conquest game very early since most Civs only had 3-4 cities while I had 9 very high productive cities. All you needed was to take a few Trebs along for the party with most any type of unit (Knights and Maces would be preferable). The AI did not even have Gunpowder for the longest time.
First Session
As most folks, I revolted to Buro, Pacifism, Merc and Slavary. Started on Education for Astro from Lib. Settled on the starting spot after checking south area. Looked for gold or gems with the other settler. After founding Hindu (I think) in the capital, the second settler came back to CornPigIronOais site since I did not like the crappy gold site. (I hear food is more important than gold.)
We met Izzy and planned to get rid of her asap. A large force of 3 HA, 3LB and 4 trebs took her out and kept her two cities by 1625AD. Once developed, her second city provided about 30-60 gold throughout the game.
First 2 GE's build the AP and U of Sancore. Switch civics to CS and HR in 1580. Then it was on to fast teching to head to space. After taking Astro from Liberalism, I used a GA to speed Nationalism and our first GM sped up Economics for the free GM who in turn was used to speed up Constitution, in 1742 we changed civics to Freemarket and Representation. Session ended realy late that night after learning Railroads in 1866.
Tech Dates
Spoiler :
Session 2: T minus 8 hours
Where did the time GO?
I needed a change of plan to finish the game. Start the game after a long time to realize there is no way to get an AP Victory since I have too many (18) large Cities with the religion and benefitting about approximately 8 hammers and flask each. Space would take long due to all the techs (I was wrong about this). Monger VC's take too much time. So to the UN then.
Start teching toward UN. Crap Sully DoW Gandhi and Vassel him. Ok Peter and Biz like me better. Sully attack Peter and Vasselize him. That SOB. Complete UN in 1905 (slowly and delayed due to forgetfulness) and get elected as SG. First Vote miss by about 40 points with Biz and without Napolian.
Pay Biz to attack Nappy and 5 transporters full of SEAL's take out Nappy. Give a few cities to Biz. Next vote Biz abstain. Bastard. Switch Civic to Nationalism and win in 1951. T minus 3 Hrs and I have to work in 4 hours. Upload file and I go to bed. I was very tired at work today but a busy day can make you forget about being tired.
Session 2 Techs
Spoiler :
I was not too far from getting to space. So I should have stayed with my Original Plan. I used a very hybrid economy in this game and had an awsome National Park City with 17 or 18 free specialists. it was just beautiful.
Thanks for a very interesting game and please can we turn off them Random Event Thingy. Had so much bad luck with fires, lootes, hurricanes and so on and so forth.
I noted that in this game, with the free Astro, I could have gone on a Conquest game very early since most Civs only had 3-4 cities while I had 9 very high productive cities. All you needed was to take a few Trebs along for the party with most any type of unit (Knights and Maces would be preferable). The AI did not even have Gunpowder for the longest time.
Gosha190
King
yes! it was great unexpectedness for me.
As jesusin, I did not play test games because lack of time and finnally I made a lot of superfluous things.
jesusin described all very good, have nothing to add.
Gosha190
King
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
I played a long first session, sporadic short sessions in the middle, leaving me with a rush to the finish ...
I settled my capital inland NW of the start, SW of the gems. Put new York E of the silver for a nice Caste/NP GP farm. I have not used a lot of caste and never before the NP, so since the team did that in the SGOTM, I thought I would practice that approach.
I was mostly building and teching, without a clear goal, which I suppose meant by default that it would either be diplo or space. Culture, and a decent performance on dom on conquest seem to require a different and focused start. Got careless and got beat to Lib by a few turns.
1778 Z'bella declares ... I was not in a war mode, but knights and drafted muskets held her off until I was ready. Traded for ivory for some WE to counter the Conqs until I had rifles. 1828 I went on the offensive, 1897 she capitulates after I capture Madrid (1 city left).
1929 I declare on Biz, who has settled most of the north and east islands. 1946 the islands are mine. About this time I have 6 hours to submit. 1954 I get the fleet over to take Munich. Its my infantry and art, in destroyers and transports, against rifles and cannon (and frigates). Still, Biz has a lot of units north, so my army has to hole up in Munich. Southern task force is moving in on his weak south coast ...
But I see he will capitulate ... hmm ... that seems good for speed, done in 1957. I have about two hours to go or less at this point. I swing both fleets around the south end of Biz, toward Peter, and gift Biz techs to make him formidable. A least by now I have built the UN.
1962 declare on Peter and his vassal Nap. Wow, Nap has spammed infantry, Peter is mostly rifles. I take a Russian city on the east island, and two of his cities in his south coast. End of 1965 I get the first diplo vic vote option ... so we vote ... and I see that Peter will capitulate! Surprising, with so few cities taken, but maybe the power of my team was imtimidating? Biz has upgraded art and infantry, and they shared a big border.
Still, the vic screen says I have 59% pop ... short of the diplo 62%. But the turn rolls and its a diplo victory for Lincoln ... I suppose the pop in the vic screen is the dom percentage (vassals partly contributing), while the vassal votes count as full pop.
Jan 1966 diplo win, 17,605 final score, 5701 base. I hour left to submit at the end. Htadus, don't ask about how my work day went that morning!
I notice that I got my saves on exit all the way through the game, EXCEPT at the very end after the victory! Anyone else notice that too? Fortunately, I don't trust the save on exit, so I had a manual end of game save. But is the mod mishandling this?
dV
I settled my capital inland NW of the start, SW of the gems. Put new York E of the silver for a nice Caste/NP GP farm. I have not used a lot of caste and never before the NP, so since the team did that in the SGOTM, I thought I would practice that approach.
I was mostly building and teching, without a clear goal, which I suppose meant by default that it would either be diplo or space. Culture, and a decent performance on dom on conquest seem to require a different and focused start. Got careless and got beat to Lib by a few turns.
1778 Z'bella declares ... I was not in a war mode, but knights and drafted muskets held her off until I was ready. Traded for ivory for some WE to counter the Conqs until I had rifles. 1828 I went on the offensive, 1897 she capitulates after I capture Madrid (1 city left).
1929 I declare on Biz, who has settled most of the north and east islands. 1946 the islands are mine. About this time I have 6 hours to submit. 1954 I get the fleet over to take Munich. Its my infantry and art, in destroyers and transports, against rifles and cannon (and frigates). Still, Biz has a lot of units north, so my army has to hole up in Munich. Southern task force is moving in on his weak south coast ...
But I see he will capitulate ... hmm ... that seems good for speed, done in 1957. I have about two hours to go or less at this point. I swing both fleets around the south end of Biz, toward Peter, and gift Biz techs to make him formidable. A least by now I have built the UN.
1962 declare on Peter and his vassal Nap. Wow, Nap has spammed infantry, Peter is mostly rifles. I take a Russian city on the east island, and two of his cities in his south coast. End of 1965 I get the first diplo vic vote option ... so we vote ... and I see that Peter will capitulate! Surprising, with so few cities taken, but maybe the power of my team was imtimidating? Biz has upgraded art and infantry, and they shared a big border.
Still, the vic screen says I have 59% pop ... short of the diplo 62%. But the turn rolls and its a diplo victory for Lincoln ... I suppose the pop in the vic screen is the dom percentage (vassals partly contributing), while the vassal votes count as full pop.
Jan 1966 diplo win, 17,605 final score, 5701 base. I hour left to submit at the end. Htadus, don't ask about how my work day went that morning!
I notice that I got my saves on exit all the way through the game, EXCEPT at the very end after the victory! Anyone else notice that too? Fortunately, I don't trust the save on exit, so I had a manual end of game save. But is the mod mishandling this?
dV
Q1: What was the score on that version?
Q2: So why didn't you submit that one ...
( $%##*&^%@# RULES!
dV
PS: Tonight I should have time to briefly describe my race to beat the clock last night.
Q1: around 15K
Q2: cause I did not play any test games, had I known!
Thanks for your write-up
You bet! Just look at my signature
beestar
subdeity
Looking forward to the results of this one, especially when my 250 year late conquest victory is actually published
P.S. check out the weather on gotm.civfanatics.net ...
P.S. check out the weather on gotm.civfanatics.net ...
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
CHALLENGER
How did you fare?
In 1928, we had the choice for next turn between Space, Diplomatic and Domination, the last one giving the highest score of 64101 (9 future techs, crazy number of citizens). This was the first time that I completed the tech tree of BtS.
Did you see any use for your UU and/or UB?
UU: No. The time that they were good was simply too short. Also, we founded a beachhead (desert) on the single tile that the AI left open on their continent. Didn't start the overseas war until the Spaceship was on its way, and then got Ottomans, India, Russia (vassal of India) and (depending on the choice of finish) Germany to capitulate.
UB: Yes. Built 46 of those, I think.
How did the late era start affect your overall strategy?
Less focus on wonders, I guess. Founding new cities was still profitable; the free buildings outweighed the expensive Settlers. I didn't play for speed this time but went full builder mode, with Sid's Sushi and Mining Co in all cities.
How did you fare?
In 1928, we had the choice for next turn between Space, Diplomatic and Domination, the last one giving the highest score of 64101 (9 future techs, crazy number of citizens). This was the first time that I completed the tech tree of BtS.
Did you see any use for your UU and/or UB?
UU: No. The time that they were good was simply too short. Also, we founded a beachhead (desert) on the single tile that the AI left open on their continent. Didn't start the overseas war until the Spaceship was on its way, and then got Ottomans, India, Russia (vassal of India) and (depending on the choice of finish) Germany to capitulate.
UB: Yes. Built 46 of those, I think.
How did the late era start affect your overall strategy?
Less focus on wonders, I guess. Founding new cities was still profitable; the free buildings outweighed the expensive Settlers. I didn't play for speed this time but went full builder mode, with Sid's Sushi and Mining Co in all cities.
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