BOTM 26 First Spoiler - 1 AD

[Niklas]

BOTM 26 First Spoiler

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 26, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

Note the early cutoff - 1 AD, not 500 AD.

• Please do not discuss anything that happened after 1 AD,
• Please do not divulge your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD (Iron is alright to discuss).

Where did you settle and why?
Did you get any use for your UU and/or UB?
How did you get along with your neighbors?

 

[lsp51]

settled in place it looked good ,no need for uu, good ub,neighbors are friendly and pleased,will go for culture or diplomatic victory,

 

[beestar]

Going for Cultural.

Things that have gone badly

Went for Oracle for Code of Laws and Confusianism, missed it by 2 turns.

Decided to spend some hammers on Stonehenge for border pops and UB. Stupid decision, and moreover I missed getting it

Mistakenly thought I was isolated because the AI was so slow to meet me (I guess I've been too used to the extra units on Immortal). Fortunately it doesn't seem to have mattered as the jungle to the north blocks ZY, and for whatever reason Darius expanded very slowly (and westward!). Settled aggressively to block off land for about 10 good cities - future cultural push will give me a lot more good tiles.

Successfully bulbed Philo but was one turn too late to score Taoism It was founded on the other continent so I can't even get it passively until Optics.

Forgot to revolt to Slavery at the end of my GA, had to waste a turn of anarchy doing it.

Things that have gone well

Begged hunting and pottery from the friendly neighbours. Do not underestimate the power of grovelling!

Philo is great trade bait, as no one on my continent has it. Waiting until another AI has something decent worth trading for it.

Niklas' Questions

Where did you settle and why?: On the tip of the peninsula to get a massive GP farm. Corn is shared with a city to the south.

Did you get any use for your UU and/or UB? I hope my totem poles will create an unassailable force of longbowmen to repel overseas enemies (my neighbours are fairly peaceful so no worries there). UU was nice for barbarian defense considering the lack of copper, and how I hate spending beakers on Archery!

How did you get along with your neighbors? Pleased so far, we share a religion and I anticipate joyful Buddhist happiness for the rest of the game. Disturbingly I can bribe ZY to attack Darius even though he's Pleased. Could Darius do the same to me?

 

[kcd_swede]

Note the early cutoff - 1 AD, not 500 AD.

• Please do not discuss anything that happened after 1 AD,
• Please do not divulge your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD (Iron is alright to discuss).

Where did you settle and why?
Did you get any use for your UU and/or UB?
How did you get along with your neighbors?

1) Settled in place, since I was decided in the pre-game thred that culture was the best option for the start and civ we were given. Figured that I could use some overlap to take advantage of all that food, with an eye t othe coast 3 tiles north.

2) UU was useful for barb defenses... barb warriors won't touch them... and by the time archers show up they are promoted enough to handle those easily as well. It is VERY nice to be able to build them without resources. I think I lost my original warrior to a lion, and that was all of my military defeats up to 1AD.

3) Persia founded Bhudism which spread to both we Injuns (err... Native Americans, excuse me...) and the Ethiopians. This made for vvery good relations on the continent, and no threat of being attacked makes for good culture set-up.

I started with a worker build, since we had lots of food even without the WB, and in my minds eye I was envisioning cottages (not one, but many). Then warrior whiole grow to 3, worker, and settler to take half of the flood plains (settled 5 tiles west of capitol, getting enough forest and hills to make city health and infrastructure builds manageable). next was some dog soldiers to handle barbs --- something they did quite well. Then workers and settlers... Persia and Ethiopia were rexing towards me so I prioritized REX with thought to block first Northwest and then Northeast and finally Southeast, in order to block off enough room for 9 cities. First techs were wheel>pottery>BW>agri or something like that. I figured that without Mysticism there was no point trying for any of the first 3 religions (and think I was correct in that choice). Minimal chopping used (except outside BFC's) to protect forest health; maximal whipping used.

The Oracle was built in a far away land in 1360BC, just as I was considering researching Priesthood. Instead I went for CoL to get Confu, but Confu was founded IAFAL 5 turns before I got it. At 1AD there is only 1 religion on the continent, which although good for relations is kind of a drag for culture push. Christianity is already founded and I am seriously wondering what kind of supermen are living in those far away lands! Do we ALL get such generous start spot and fertile surroundings???

Who knows? But with the capitol and the city on the south edge of the FP area (8 or 9 FP?) and the city on the north edge of the FP area (5 tiles N of the 2nd city) getting about the same number of FP (and iron!), I feel confident about my chances of a victory... though I may go diplo or space if the religion situation doesn't improve. This many cottages is a recipe for victory, no matter what. Or at least... it would be on a random generated map. I'm more than a little worried here, though.

 

[Jasonc]

Settled in place (Did anyone NOT?) and spend the first 2000 years of so hemming and hawing over whether I should play an aggresive game or stay peaceful throughout. I finally decided to go aggresive, but not until after I lost out on all the early religions, oracle and Stonehenge

Darius discovered Hinduism and (eventually) spread it to me. ZY got Christianity and is in the lead, mostly through REX. After finishing agonizing over my poor start, I finally settled into a strategy that I am happy with, but have all but given up on getting a good score.

By 1 AD, I had settled two additional cities (one on the west side of the east flood plains river and the other between the twin peaks by the stone.) I have my sights set on pillaging ZY with longbows/dogs and am in process of researching Feudalism.

 

[adrianj]

BOTM26 - Contender Save

For this game I really want a cultural victory. No specific reason, just that I haven't had one in a while. In the past I've set myself up for defeat by doggedly pursuing a poor choice of VC when things don't go my way, so I'll try to be flexible - AKA, I'll go to war and take a late game cultural VC if I have to.

*** Session 1: 4000 BC -> 1480 BC ***

I'm thinking of settling in place. The warrior moves onto the hill SW to check that I can make a decent city using the sheep at some point - it will get silver at least. I then settle in place for what will most likely be my GP Farm. I'm hoping a nearby AI capital will make for a better long term commerce capital if need be - although that's probably not all that essential for a cultural game.

Seeing the extra floodplains after settling is also nice for the GP Farm.

First techs are Mining -> BW, first builds workboat -> workboat -> worker (whipped). I'm not considering a rush just yet.

Soon enough I meet Darius. Ok, maybe I am considering a rush, or at least a choke to slow him down and kill later. He has even founded a religion for me.

Techs after BW: AH (show horses) -> Myst
Builds: Barracks (2x whip) -> Dog (chop) -> Dog (chop).

Ah damn. I lose a dog en route to Darius after being attacked by a lion and panther on the same interturn.

Zara Yaqob has also founded a religion for me.

At 2160 I've built a total of 4 dogs and had 1 die. I'm hoping I can still fit in Stonehenge... Quite a slow start here. Nope - it's gone in 2080 BC.

In 1880 BC I'm poised to attack Darius with 2 dogs. I change my mind - I hope that his religion, Hinduism can spread to me, I'll convert to it, and we can both be good friends vs the heathen Zara Yaqob. My dogs are no just fog busting.

City #2 is settled in 1600 BC near Darius' southern horses, and immediately begins building the Oracle - as much for the free tech as for the culture it will need. I lose a worker to barbs on this turn moving between the cities. Oh oh oh, not a great start at all, and all from stupid mistakes.

The Oracle is built in a far away land in 1480 BC. Could this get any worse?

*** Session 2: 1480 BC -> 1 AD ***

Of course they can get worse. This period I'm trying to just get my empire together, found a few cities, and set up an economy.

Confucianism is founded somewhere in 1040 BC, so another religion I won't have.

City #3 is founded in 850 BC to claim the sheep, silver and fish.
City #4 is founded in 550 BC in the middle of the floodplains.

Hinduism spreads to me in 225 BC, and I convert immediately. I'd like to found Taoism as well, so next tech goal after ALphabet (150 BC) is Code of Laws to bulb Philo.

I'm astounded by how quickly Zara manages to expand! By 1 AD he has 9 cities to my 5 (5th city founded in 1 AD in a sub optimal spot near Zara, claiming wheat and fish). Darius has only 3 cities at this point.

 

[Lemontree5544]

I decided to post because I needed to prove that I wasn't a bot (5 posts)

1): I settled in place, I figured that the gold at the beginning of the game would help boost my research, and it did.

I settled my second city next to Persepolis with the corn/pig/horse, for a military start. Maintenance was bad initially, but when I mined my Gold, it was all good.
2) I didn't build a single Dog soldier.
3) I researched Animal husbandry as my second tech because I figured it would have been more useful than pottery (to check for horses). In the mean time, I met up with zara as well as darius.

How did I get along with my neighbors... Let's just say that Darius was destroyed by 1000 BC. I'm still playing this game, but I can't submit it, I reloaded once, so I decided to have my fun with this game.

 

[Jasonc]

From reading these last couple of posts, it sounds like I did not get out of the gate fast enough. I should have either gone for an early rush or REX. Since I did neither, I do not have high hopes for this game

 

[azzaman333]

Settled in place (Did anyone NOT?) and spend the first 2000 years of so hemming and hawing over whether I should play an aggresive game or stay peaceful throughout. I finally decided to go aggresive, but not until after I lost out on all the early religions, oracle and Stonehenge

Darius discovered Hinduism and (eventually) spread it to me. ZY got Christianity and is in the lead, mostly through REX. After finishing agonizing over my poor start, I finally settled into a strategy that I am happy with, but have all but given up on getting a good score.

By 1 AD, I had settled two additional cities (one on the west side of the east flood plains river and the other between the twin peaks by the stone.) I have my sights set on pillaging ZY with longbows/dogs and am in process of researching Feudalism.

I was strongly considering a move to the SE plainshill if there was more seafood out there (which my warrior checked first turn). No seafood made it an easy choice though.

Darius founded Buddhism and is keeping everyone on our continent happy through it.
Zara stole Stonehenge 1 turn before I could whip it, which annoyed me. I didn't really REX, which seems to be letting Zara grow worryingly large. My aim is to win by Diplo, but I fear Zara will grow too large and will be my rival for the vote. If he does I guess I'll try to go space.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Settled in place, went for fast second city to get silver and teched very fast to Alpha, which gave me some techs in trade, but nothing big. Darious got Buddism and Zara got poly and are both spreading them on me like mad...hmmm.

Did not go for any wonders....totally forgot that my initial plan was to get feudalism off Oracle so did not even try, maybe is a good thing from what I read here.

I think I will tech to catas to take out someone, propably Darious, both Zara and Darious seem to tech slowly....not sure what the grand plan is to be honest, propably domination (our continent seems very big) or conquest.

 

[Ribannah]

CHALLENGER


Considered settling on the plains hill to maximize Moai, but the Gold and later Levee prospects made me choose the starting tile. As we would begin with a boat, there was no urgency for any tech and we tried Mysticism, followed by Meditation when no message of Buddhism had arrived. The religion was ours, and as both Hinduism and Judaism appeared in lands unknown our neighbours were happy to join. Later Darius discovered Code of Laws and switched to Confucianism, but as of 1 AD he is still nice.

Early on we had quite some trouble with barbarians, at some point they were coming from four sides, but we slew them all. A Warrior upgraded to Dog Soldier is now at level 10 and is kept safe to allow the Heroic Epic.

Thanks to the abundance of food, we were happily settling new towns until at 1000bc I noticed that nobody had built the Oracle yet...

We remedied that, netting us Metal Casting and early Forges.

A good thing, too, as research went rather slow as we took a detour to Monotheism for the builder bonus, and our town at the Stone was rather expensive.

The first Great Prophet gave us The Mahabodhi; the second was used to start a Golden Age the turn the Pyramids were finished, and during the GA we switched to Representation and will switch in 50ad to Civil Service without anarchy. Hopefully, a Great Scientist will also arrive in 50ad for the Academy in Cahokia.

Life is good. At 1 AD we have 8 cities (9 next turn), built both the Great Lighthouse and The Colossus in our Silver town, Moai in the capital, and the Hanging Gardens and Chitzen Itza are near completion. Two sources of Iron popped up on our patch. There is a Barbarian city far west at the lake with another Stone source, and some free land beyond it. Darius seems hesitant to expand, but Zara Yaqob has quickly claimed most of the north. We seem to be slowly edging ahead in tech now.

Towns

4000bc Cahokia (corn, fish, 3 clams, gold)
1840bc Poverty Point (wheat, iron)
1680bc Mound City (sheep, fish, silver)
1440bc Chaco Canyon (floodplains)
925bc Mesa Verde (corn, ivory (currently Pasargadae's), stone)
400bc Snaketown (wheat, cow, iron)
225bc Spiro (cow, horse, lake)
150bc Moundville (fish)

Technology

3680bc Mysticism
3320bc Meditation (Buddhism in Cahokia)
3040bc Mining
2720bc The Wheel
2400bc Bronze Working
2160bc Polytheism
2000bc Masonry
1760bc Monotheism (Slavery and Organized Religion the next turn)
1560bc Pottery
1320bc Sailing
1120bc Animal Husbandry
1040bc Priesthood
875bc Writing (Open Borders with neighbours)
825bc Metal Casting (The Oracle)
375bc Alphabet; Hunting and Iron Working (Ethiopia)
350bc Mathematics and Archery (Persia)
225bc Currency
125bc Code of Laws

Production in capital

3480bc Work Boat
3120bc Worker
2520bc Worker
2360bc Work Boat
2280bc Work Boat
2200bc Work Boat
1960bc Warrior
1920bc Settler
1760bc Settler
1720bc Workboat
1480bc Settler
1400bc Granary
1320bc Buddhist Monastery
1240bc Lighthouse
1200bc Warrior
1080bc Worker
1000bc Settler
875bc Buddhist Temple
825bc THE ORACLE
725bc Forge
575bc MOAI STATUES
525bc Library
450bc Settler
450bc Great Prophet -> THE MAHABODHI
325bc Settler
250bc Work Boat
200bc Settler, Great Prophet -> Golden Age in 100bc

Built elsewhere
350bc THE GREAT LIGHTHOUSE (Mound City)
100bc THE PYRAMIDS (Poverty Point)
1ad THE COLOSSUS (Mound City)

Stats in 1ad
Score: 655 (Ethiopia 560, Persia 451)
Towns: 8 (Ethiopia 7, Persia 5)
Pop: 37 (Ethiopia 29, Persia 20 + another town)

We have some Dog Soldiers, but no Totempoles yet.

 

[ButSam]

ADVENTURER

I decided early on to go for a Specialist Economy Space Race victory. I have not yet won on Monarch at all, so Adventurer makes the most sense for me. This start is pretty darn good, and Sitting Bull's increased defensiveness is a boon to someone like me who might otherwise get wiped out.

I built the Great Wall and went for Alphabet to get spies, with their primary purpose being to steal technology. So far so good; friendly terms, only 1 religion on the starting continent and both neighbors are that religion, so that helps a lot.

In retrospect I perhaps should have done mega-spy points for one neighbor instead of settling the spy and building Scotland Yard with the next spy, but oh well, this will give all-game effects.

So far so good, my best start on Monarch; researching very well, and progressing great. But the hardest part of the game is still to come... If I survive to the end I'll be happy, and I have no reason to believe I won't survive to the end either

 

[Lexad]

1640AD Oracle here from AI after me going the whole religious tech thread. Damn Oracle-rushing AI noobs. Pyrs and HG also gone in BCs, as well as Artemis and GLhouse.

Forgot for 100 years to switch to CS on top of that. I'm too relaxed in my last games.

 

[adrianj]

1640 AD Oracle? Really? Typo?

 

[Lexad]

I never do typos. And do fart violets.

 

[neilmeister]

Is that what the smell was?

 

[Mutineer]

I did not play Civ for a few years. It's shows. I miss religion, even I bee-lined to Monotheism after just 2 workers tech. By 4 turns no less. On a bright side I got Great Lighthouse. I to figth thinking i am isolated, us I did not meat AI for a while. Zara build cities as creasy. He becoming a monster, I am not sure what to do about him. Build only 7 cities before running out of space. I seems too slow, on other hand I am tech leader it seems.

 

[Xcalibrator]

Settled in place, leaving the corn for a future city to the south. Early builds were workboat, workboat, whip a worker when BW comes in, dog soldier, whip granary, whip settler, barracks, warrior...

Techs
Mining (3860 BC)
BW (3120)
Wheel (2840)
Pottery (2640)
Writing (2280)
AH (2040)
Mysticism (1920)
Meditation (1720)
Priesthood (1600)
Iron Working (1200)
Alphabet (825)
Hunting (800--trade)
Metal Casting (475)
Math (300)
Masonry (250)
Construction (50 BC).
Let's see, that's 16, to Ribannah's 21. And she has 8 cities to my 5. So much for me pushing for REX more than usual. Teach me, that I may learn!

5 Cities (Populations are actually a bit into the ADs--I don't have a 1AD save)
Cahokia 4000 BC, in place, pop 11
Poverty 2040 BC, 4south (silver, corn, sheep, fish), pop 9--Moai went here later
Mound 1480 BC, north up the coast with fish, pop 7
Chaco 1040 BC, west (rivers, wheat, iron), pop 8
Mesa 575 BC, way north between mountains (stone, cow, iron), pop 2.
I concentrated on grabbing resources and trying (not very well) to box in the neighbors. I didn't settle the floodplains until very late, which was probably foolish; the plan is to make it my Globe/National Epic cottage/GP farm and save Cahokia for Oxford and Something Else (Iron Works?).

Stonehenge 1320 BC by Zara.
Oracle BIAFAL 1440 BC--I had just started it.
Great Lighthouse 600 BC BIAFAL.
Pyramids 275 BC by Zara--I had no intention of trying for this and am happy that it's on our continent (to be captured!).
Temple of Artemis 125 BC by Zara.
Colossus in Cahokia 100 BC.
Without any bonus resources for early Wonders I didn't plan to try very hard for anything except the Colossus and maybe the Oracle. Mesa Verde's stone will come in handy for Oxford (and walls and castles) and I'd like to try for Notre Dame with such a big continent, given my expansion plans.

Darius founded Buddhism and Zara quickly adopted it. I converted 575 BC and we're all buddies. Zara got Christianity sometime later, but all the other religions went to The Others. My first GP (a Scientist for an academy) was 775 BC, with a second in 25 AD that I think I settled.

I sent my original warrior exploring but he didn't see any great opportunities to steal workers (not that I'm very good at that). He did, however, survive enough barb attacks to work himself up to 10 XPs and Woodsman3; I later used him for my first warlord superhealer. I built a couple dogs to keep the barbs under control, and then a few more for the later wars. I built a lot of totem poles--should have tried for Stonehenge. Maybe.

I considered aiming for a culture win which gave me a convenient excuse not to go for any religions. When almost all the religions appeared off-continent that let me switch to old faithful, conquest/domination. As others have noted, Darius was very slow to expand while Zara was like a plague of locusts. Once the Colossus came in I started preparing for the Persian Wars. I'm pretty weak on early rushes but really didn't see any hope for that in this game. As usual, I waited until I could use cats and the wars didn't start until the ADs. I'm behind on techs but Construction gives me an edge with those cats. The plan is to take out Darius, secure the entire south of the continent and then beat back Zara with trebs, maces, and uberarchery. Can I do it before he gets too far ahead on techs and makes things difficult?

 

[Ribannah]

Let's see, that's 16, to Ribannah's 21. And she has 8 cities to my 5. So much for me pushing for REX more than usual. Teach me, that I may learn!

Fair enough.

Mining (3860 BC)
BW (3120)
Wheel (2840)
Pottery (2640)

So far you were doing fine.

Writing (2280)
AH (2040)

With so much seafood, and sea/river connections to your neighbours, researching Sailing has a high priority. Also, AH before Writing decreases the costs of Writing and gives earlier access to pastures and horses.

Mysticism (1920)
Meditation (1720)
Priesthood (1600)
Iron Working (1200)

You could have traded for some of those (certainly IW) if you had researched Alphabet first.

Alphabet (825)

Now of limited value. Research Metal Casting instead and you can probably get Alphabet from the AI.

Hunting (800--trade)
Metal Casting (475)
Math (300)
Masonry (250)
Construction (50 BC)

Mathematics and Construction can often be traded for.

Cahokia 4000 BC, in place, pop 11
Poverty 2040 BC, 4south (silver, corn, sheep, fish), pop 9--Moai went here later
Mound 1480 BC, north up the coast with fish, pop 7

Not a priority site, you had better gone inland first to claim some territory.

Chaco 1040 BC, west (rivers, wheat, iron), pop 8
Mesa 575 BC, way north between mountains (stone, cow, iron), pop 2.
I concentrated on grabbing resources and trying (not very well) to box in the neighbors. I didn't settle the floodplains until very late, which was probably foolish; the plan is to make it my Globe/National Epic cottage/GP farm and save Cahokia for Oxford and Something Else (Iron Works?).

The unhealthiness from the floodplains will prevent it from growing very large. Also, cottages are best started early in the game.

I sent my original warrior exploring but he didn't see any great opportunities to steal workers (not that I'm very good at that). He did, however, survive enough barb attacks to work himself up to 10 XPs and Woodsman3; I later used him for my first warlord superhealer. I built a couple dogs to keep the barbs under control, and then a few more for the later wars. I built a lot of totem poles

Why? You have a 10XP unit so a single totempole, in the Heroic Epic town, suffices.

--should have tried for Stonehenge. Maybe.

No time, no need.


Hope this helps.

 

[adrianj]

Thanks for the advice Ribannah - I'm sure we can all learn from this

Perhaps another difference I've noticed between your two games:

Oracle BIAFAL 1440 BC--I had just started it.

825bc Metal Casting (The Oracle)

That's quite some variance there. Are there any practical steps one can take that might delay the AI taking the Oracle? Shooting to found religions yourself might deter the AI for going for those techs, but it isn't all that practical. Although in this case:

As we would begin with a boat, there was no urgency for any tech and we tried Mysticism, followed by Meditation when no message of Buddhism had arrived.

Makes perfect sense. I seem to have this mental block against aiming for an early religion, but in some cases there's no need to go worker + worker techs first.