BOTM 33 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted or Abandoned

[pnp_dredd]

I got a domination win in the 1500s. My horse archer "rush" lasted till around 700ad when knights came in. I built around 60 HAs, 60 cats and 60 knights. I made lots of mistakes - it's been a while since I've played out a military win.
- A few times I attacked before I was really ready, and bounced off a well defended city, ruining my momentum.
- Should have taken Native America earlier
- Should have gone for Oracle-COL after building GW. I saw the marble near HC's capital, plus lotsof hills and assumed there would be an early Oracle. but I would have had heaps of time...

I got a cool event, gaining 4 (I think) HAs from claiming Alex's iron.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

I went for the Great Wall and completed it in 2240 BC. The Great Spy it would produce would scout the rest of the map before settling in my capital. Alex looked weak during that scouting, but by the time I declared war on him in 300 BC, he had phalanxes, which completely blunted my attack. I had to buy him off with Meditation for peace in 75 BC.

In 50 AD, Sury, H.C. and Suleiman dog piled on Washington. I accepted H.C.'s request to join the war and I picked up a barb city that Washington had captured on my border. (How he had gone so far to take it, I have no idea!) I make peace with Washington in 375 AD, but later agree to a request from Sury to go to war against Washington again (this time, a phony war).

I declare war on Sitting Bull in 780 and conquer him in 1410, but that's much too slow. By that time, as a result of the wars others have been fighting, H.C. and Alex have volunteered to be Sury's vassal, Washington has capitulated to Sury, and they're all at was with Suleiman. I join Suleiman in the war, which seems to be my only option to resist Sury's power. I take one of Alex's cities and one of Sury's (on the western shore of the lake), lose them both to big stacks of Sury's troops and take them back again.

Meanwhile, Sury's control of the Apostolic Palace is turning me into a world villain (it was that or give back the cities I fought so hard to capture!), my economy has almost entirely crashed, I'm losing both the production and scientific research battles, and Sury won't agree to peace for anything less that Gunpowder and the return of his city.

I see no way to improve the situation and retire in 1665 with a measly score of 2843.

 

[cabert]

continuing from first spoiler, where I was in a not totally won war vs the ottomans
I'm stubborn so I fought the guy till he capped in 1060 AD. Lucky me, all other civs had their hands full fighting each other.

In 1120 AD I turned vs washington and his vassal huyna capac. Again, I faced fierce opposition.
Luckily I was doing well in techs (first to lib in 1280 AD), and with the help of :
- nationhood + slavery to get enough troops
- suryavarman who declared on washington in 1410 AD
I capitulated Washington (huyna died) in 1565 AD.

I then turned vs the greeks and declared on them in 1570 AD. Alex was no match at this point and capitulated in 1630 AD.

Suryavarman came next : I declared in 1645AD and he capitulated in 1670 AD.

Sitting bull was last : I declared in 1680 AD and he capitulated in 1710 AD. I thought I would get a conquest but it turned out to be domination. Too late to matter anyway.

115k score isn't that great but I feared the worst at several points, so I'm rather happy about it.

 

[Conquistador 63]

I don't have too much to say about this game. I was going for a space victory, but I kept getting attacked by the aggressive AI. Rather than fighting until a cease fire or capitulation was available, I continued my attack until said AI was wiped out just to show them who the man really is!

These AI's were really pesky (BTW, nice job, DS! ). But I was able to resist the temptation and kept my borders just below the domination limits.

After I conquered Alex (800AD), I was planning to go for HC and his shiny wonders, but SB attacked me...so I wiped him out next (1310AD). I couldn't even consider going for HC next: Sury came knocking just after I finished SB and even captured Sparta for a few turns. I had almost 20 units defending there (muskets, maces, LB's, etc), but he suicided a handful of catapults before decimating my army. Not bad for a Monarch AI, huh? After that disastrous battle, he had 2x my power.

To make matters worse, the Inca AP passed a resolution for war on my friend Suleiman, whom I had bribed to help vs. Sury. At that time I had decided to adopt buddhism to eventually gain control of the AP, so I was forced into that war - but it was a phony and short one.

Slowly but surely, I retook Sparta and got peace from Sury, and since I was planning to go to space via the corporation route, I sent my idle troops to capture Suleiman's plentiful wheat resources. He capitulated in 1615AD.

No more wars after that, but it was a tense endgame, since HC and Sury had enough on their hands for long. I kept building a few tanks here and there and stationed an airship in Inca's land where he had a nice SoD of rifles, cannons and cavalry. A couple turns before I launched, the war trumpets sounds...Sury declares on HC!

Quests
Later in the game, I also got a Corporation-based Quest that asked me to capture or settle by a source of Rice. I scanned the map thoroughly but could not see a single Rice Resource anywhere. Either I'm blind or that Quest has a bug.

I got this one also. I wonder what the reward would be?

This was a fun scenario. It was hard to REX and keep research high in the start, in our food-poor location. I was pleasantly surprised that the infiltrated GSpy yielded me half a dozen techs from Capac between 500 and 1000AD, up to engineering. Research only took off after I got Bio from Lib (1390AD). Mining Inc was at 30 and Cereal Mills was at 10. Would state property be better for space in this map?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Mining Inc was at 30 and Cereal Mills was at 10. Would state property be better for space in this map?

It's hard to say. I managed to "convince" Sitting Bull to build Versailles for me, although it took me a long time to capture it and then he got it back from me for a span of 5 turns, all within the same war.

I ended up with similar Corporation values... 27 Hammers from Mining Co and 12 Food from Cereal Mills.

Certainly, for Domination, State Property would have been a better choice, as the initial investment in a Corporation here was high and Domination without requiring Galleons is usually best done before Corps can really start to take off.

I guess if you managed to get the correct Great People for Corporations and were already done warring or close to done warring by the time that you had to make the choice, Corporations would have been a solid choice for a Space game. I'm not going to blatantly claim that they were necessarily the better choice here, though.

Had you still needed to do a lot of warring or hadn't captured a ton of Corporate Reources, then perhaps State Property would have been a better choice for Space.

I got this one also. I wonder what the reward would be?

Quest18: Hostile Takeover
Pre-req: Own a corporate HQ and do not control at least 1 instance of all of the Resources that the Corporation uses
Obsolete: None
Active/Weight: 80/200
Aim: Own all Resource types that the Corporation uses
Result: +20 Gold for the Corporate HQ

That translates to an extra 60 Gold per Turn with a Market, Grocer, Bank, and Wallstreet.

I guess it depends upon how quickly and easily you are able to fulfill that Quest as to whether or not it is worth chasing after.

Research only took off after I got Bio from Lib (1390AD).

I had to take Rifling from Liberalism just to be able to take over Sury, who had a huge portion of the map, partially taken from Huayna and Washington, and who was almost ready to field Grenadiers. He actually had Grenadiers before my forces could make much of an advance and thus beating him down was thus very slow-going.

 

[The-Hawk]

Somehow this game just did not feel right to me (not the map or scenario... my play). I decided to build GW before my first settler, maybe this is what felt wrong. I was going for fast domination, my decision to build GW and the open land meant my first war was not until 100 BC. Doesn't feel so fast. Once I got into my war cadence, the pace felt better.

Anyhow, my game was pretty straightforward. Probably my biggest mistake was an attempt at HC's capital to gain Henge and Mids. When I went after it, I simply did not bring enough HA's given the large stack I found in the city. I needed to offer peace and then come back later to finish him

My wars (other than a couple of captured barb cities):

100 BC: Alex with HA's. 3 cities kept, 1 razed. Alex eliminated.
350 AD: HC with HA's (this is the war I messed up). 2 cities kept, but HC still alive.
600 AD: Sitting Bull with HA's. 4 cities kept, 2 razed. SB is now a vassal.
980 AD: Sulieman is at war with Washington and was getting slapped around pretty badly. He asks to become my vassal. I accept and therefore DOW on Washington. I didn't have an army in place to attack Washington (was setting up to go for HC again). However, getting Sulieman without a fight seemed worth it. Also, Washington had some serious numbers, it seemed a good chance to carve him back a little. I ran some knights up and chewed up Washington's stack, then captured 1 Washington city and returned to Sulieman. Washington is still alive.
1030 AD: HC with Knights. Kept 3 cities, HC is now a vassal.
1170 AD: Washington with Knights. Kept 2 cities, Washington capitulates rather quickly.
1250 AD: Suryavarman with Knights. Kept 3 cities.

1280 AD: Tip domination limit for 171 K points. I could have taken a Conquest victory (Surya was the last AI and was ready to capitulate), but decided my date was too slow to be competitive for conquest.

 

[WelshGandalf]

Wow guys seems I have a lot to learn!

This is my first GOTM - I posted in the first spoiler thread too, had an awful start.

My capital ended up my south-eastern-most city for ages. I charged up north & west, capturing barbarian city after barbarian city. I had more ex-barb cities than ones I had settled myself!

Next up my economy started packing itself in, went to about 20% or 30% science, had very little defence whilst I built up libraries and markets etc, also loads of my cities were size 4-5 so weren't much use economically, thankfully no-one attacked - well, except for the Greeks, who made it next to my capital, trashed a village and then got sent home by the Apostolic Palace

Settled 2 more around 1000 AD, never settled so late before but they were fairly lame places - I just couldn't really grow my existing cities more so seemed a decent option.

Time for some proper war - turns out that Sulieman, Alexander & myself are all Hindus, so that leaves Sitting Bull to attack. Macemen up and onwards I go. First I cap a couple of fairly lame cities, that he defended quite well. Then it's onto Poverty Point, I get there, start bombarding and realise I really can't take it with the troops I have. Whilst sitting there wondering what to do, Alexander walks up with a stack - doesn't look big enough either. He attacks anyway, & loses, but weakens them enough that I can attack & take the city (it took 2 turns though, as he had more troops than me ).

Alexander takes the Native American capital (my army wasn't big enough to do that) and makes him his vassal. What to do next... I decide to rush to riflemen and attack someone. So I get rifling, start building shedloads of riflemen.... when I win the Apostolic Council vote. Sulieman is +20 to me (never seen such a big number) and Alexander is +12 (despite me declaring war on him ages ago), and we three are the biggest Hindus on the planet. So I click "propose religious victory" and they give it to me, 1765AD. Not the end I was planning but hey, I've never had a religious victory before so that's nice Score just under 40k.

I'd love some advice on how on earth you guys roll over enemies so early on... maybe I build too many buildings and not enough attack units? *shrug*

 

[adrianj]

Great work WelshGandalf - after reading your first spoiler I was a little worried for you! Pulling off any kind of win at a difficulty above your usual is an achievement, so congratulations

Have you discovered the CivFanatics War Academy? There are lots of great tips in there about all sorts of things, including warfare.

How do players roll over enemies so early on:

My theory in a nutshell - commitment and focus. These players aren't building chariots, jaguars or horse archers as an aside, they are commited to building them en masse in as short a time as possible. The entire empire is focussed on the war effort - this might include heavily whipping cities to amass an army ASAP as well dedicating workers to building roads to your target.

I guess there is also Timing and Intelligence. If your target has a powerful counter to your main offensive unit (eg, Phalanx or Dog Soldiers vs Jaguar Warriors, or Spears vs Horse Archers) then you might want to rethink your timing, eg, delay until Construction (catapults) or Machinery+CivilService (Maces) - in which case, the empire is focussed on acquiring those techs ASAP.

Often the cost of feilding an effective army so early on is a lack of infrastructure since you've been producing units instead of buildings - but if you can knock back a nearby rival and claim their land (capital's are often especially good city sites) then the cost is usually worth it.

 

[Grifftavian]

First Spoiler post >>here<<.

So how did your game after 500AD go?
I got off to a pretty good start, and I wasn't involved in any wars up to 500 AD, but it didn't take too long for that to change.

First War against Greece...
Alex declares on me in 740 AD. I had been running Hereditary Rule civic, since a couple of other civs had that as their favorite, but with the outbreak of war, I switch over to Police State (from Pyramids build) and Slavery (most cities have Sacrificial Alters now). He captures Texcoco from me shortly after the start of the war. It takes too long, but I recapture Texcoco later, and we sign a peace treaty in 1030 AD.

First War against Native America...
After refusing several earlier requests, I finally agree to Sury's request to declare on Sitting Bull in 1200 AD. Washington declares on Sury on the same turn. Since I have some veteran troops from the first Greek war, I stay in Hereditary Rule for this war. I capture Mesa Verde from Sitting Bull in 1270 AD, and sign a Peace Treaty with him at the end of that turn.

Second War against Native America...
I use the requisite 10 turns of Peace to fortify Mesa Verde, and capture my third Barbarian city. In 1370 AD, I declare war on Sitting Bull again. IIRC, everyone except Washington is also at war with SB (a disadvantage of him being the only Hindu I guess). Washington becomes a Vassal State of Suryavarman II in 1390 AD. I captured Sitting Bull's capitol city, Cahokia, in 1410 AD. With only one city remaining, Sitting Bull agree to becomes a Vassal State of Suryavarman II in 1480 AD. Peace has come to the world, but it won't last too long.

Second War against Alex, with a dogpile from Sury & his Vassals...
Alexander (Greece) declares war on Montezuma (Aztec) in 1535 AD. I change Civics to Police State/Vassalage/Theocracy so I can build some troops with a couple of promotions. Changing out of Hereditary Rule (Sury's favorite Civic) might have been a mistake. I fend off a few Greek attacks at Mesa Verde, but Texcoco is lost to the Greeks (again) in 1570 AD. Next turn, 1575 AD, Sury and his Vassals declare war on poor old Monte. In 1580 AD, I bribe Suleiman to declare on Alex by giving him Divine Right. I'm first to research Liberalism on this same turn, and take Economics as my free tech, gaining a free Great Merchant from being the first to discover Econ. I send the GM on a trade mission to Suleiman's Capitol. 20/20 Hindsight: maybe I should have taken Gunpowder as the free tech, since I was at war with four AI Civs. In 1585 AD, Suleiman captures Texcoco from Alex and I lose Mesa Verde to Sury. In 1610 AD, my main invasion force is destroyed just outside Athens by a combined force of Khmer and American troops. I lose...

• 1 Pikeman
• 2 Knights
• 6 Macemen
• 1 Super Medic Explorer

In 1620 AD, the Khmer Stack of Doom that had captured Mesa Verde attacks and captures my Capitol. I have lost the majority of my offensive troops, three cities (including The Great Wall in my Capitol), and have two Khmer & American Stacks of Doom bearing down on my remaining cities. And now that I don't have TGW anymore, some Barbarian troops start showing up from the NW. I think I know how this story is going to end, so...

I retire in disgrace in 1625 AD.

I'm probably too much of a build-a-holic to do well on maps like this where you can make contact with all the AI Civs fairly early. But I did enjoy the game while it lasted, thanks DS!

 

[Grifftavian]

snip...
My theory in a nutshell - commitment and focus. These players aren't building chariots, jaguars or horse archers as an aside, they are commited to building them en masse in as short a time as possible. The entire empire is focussed on the war effort - this might include heavily whipping cities to amass an army ASAP as well dedicating workers to building roads to your target.

I guess there is also Timing and Intelligence. If your target has a powerful counter to your main offensive unit (eg, Phalanx or Dog Soldiers vs Jaguar Warriors, or Spears vs Horse Archers) then you might want to rethink your timing, eg, delay until Construction (catapults) or Machinery+CivilService (Maces) - in which case, the empire is focussed on acquiring those techs ASAP.

Often the cost of feilding an effective army so early on is a lack of infrastructure since you've been producing units instead of buildings - but if you can knock back a nearby rival and claim their land (capital's are often especially good city sites) then the cost is usually worth it.

Well said, and some lessons I need to learn as well.

 

[MacBalt]

Well, pththththt...

Fun game, but after my initial setbacks I just got silly. When I looked up at 1500 AD wtih Alex, HC, and Sury capitulated and Suli still alive but on the ropes I just decided it was too late to do anything but have some fun kicking things around. After Suli gave up the fight I pushed/capitulated Washington off his Wheat and tried to use Cereal Mills to grow large cities while leaving Sitting Bull alive to keep the game going. Apparently I still let things go far too late as the score kept dropping precipitously in the 1800s even as my cities kept growing. Pretty stupid way to play the game I guess... but I learned that being stupid is no obstacle to having fun with Civ... which is why I'm still playing this game I guess!

Finally rolled over Sitting Bull in 1911 for an unimpressive score of about 85,000.

Game over next turn. Now the decision... I'm at 65% in land area and this would put me over the Dom limit, or I can liberate some cities and stay under the Dom limit, thus assuring a Conquest victory. Since my date is very slow (1545AD) for a military victory, I decide I'll just keep the points and accept Domination. But suprisingly enough, the victory screen says Conquest Victory for Montezuma anyhow. (157109 points). Confused me, but it doesn't really matter.

Interesting... I had an opposite experience. Sitting Bull was the last to capitulate, but his land area must have put me over the Domination limit, because I ended up with a domination victory instead of a conquest. Not that it matters, but go figure??

 

[The-Hawk]

I had two games in a row on HOF Gauntlet 102 where I tipped domination on the same turn as conquest. One finished as a dom, the other finished as a conquest. I posted a question, Dynamic posted the following:

If you achieve several victory conditions at the same turn resulting vicory type will be selected by random (between them).

 

[kcd_swede]

I had two games in a row on HOF Gauntlet 102 where I tipped domination on the same turn as conquest. One finished as a dom, the other finished as a conquest. I posted a question, Dynamic posted the following:

Originally Posted by Dynamic
If you achieve several victory conditions at the same turn resulting victory type will be selected by random (between them).

Thanks! Thats good to know. I thought there was some kind of heirarchy, but I so rarely complete more than one VC that I never had reason to question my assumption before.

 

[zamint3]

After 500AD every thing went smoothly, I was in control of the techs, the wonders and the AI, well that's one way of putting it.
The truth is, I had so much fun playing, that I played too long sessions and lost focus.

Anyway I wiped out The Ottomans, vassaled The Americans, The Greek and Sitting Bull and then realized that my score was way too low (I think it peaked around 130k), so I set up a new plan: The Cow Award

I had some time to spare this month so I wouldn't mind an extra hour (or 20 ) of Civ4

This was new land for me but I figured out that holding all the wheat and the corn would bring a decent Cereal Mill, my vassal The Americans had a lot of wheat and Sitting Bull some corn so that was not a problem.

My pop was rising quickly and so was my land, but it did not look anything like the 60% my advisors told my. , only then I remembered something about a vassals land counting towards domination - is it 50% ??

So how to get rid of a vassal?

I tried to piss them of in any way, changing religion and civics and making horrible demands and finally The American and Alex did declare war, but I never got rid of Sitting Bull (furious at -15)

I lived with this for hundreds of turns I had to keep Alex alive to prevent Sitting Bull from building any cities, but that went well and I was preparing for a settler spam on the last turn when I accidentally hit b instead of f with a settler, building a city that I could not get rid of again and therefore would bring me over the limit - shiiiiit! (Pardon the French here - actually I might even have used stronger terms than that )

I did build a few cities and captured some of Alex's cities but it ended there on that turn in 2045AD with a base score of 16500

I don't think I'll do this again - unless of course I don't get the cow.....

A few stats here at the end:

I had 7 GAs (incl Taj Mahal), is 8 possible?

Spoiler :

Great Persons were very helpful, all though I didn't know what to do with the last 15...

Spoiler :

Alex build The Great Lighthouse in 1760AD


At the end I did not really have any problems with health or happiness.

Spoiler :

Victory screen:

Spoiler :

These BOTM's have made me a Civ addict again.

 

[MacBalt]

I had two games in a row on HOF Gauntlet 102 where I tipped domination on the same turn as conquest. One finished as a dom, the other finished as a conquest. I posted a question, Dynamic posted the following:
Originally Posted by Dynamic
If you achieve several victory conditions at the same turn resulting victory type will be selected by random (between them).

Interesting. Thanks for the info, Hawk!

 

[srad]

Victory screen:

Oh wow - lot of 'green' on the lower right minimap! Looks like a fun game!

 

[adrianj]

Holy Moly that is a lot of Great People! Either my maths is wrong, or my eyes deceive me, but 49 great people not including Generals! That should be an award all to itself

 

[Lexad]

Duckweed is just being overmodest. Now my date, that is horrible. First 19th century spaceship in like 4 years, I believe.

 

[Xcalibrator]

1852 Dom win, Challenger save (Emperor). I don't know if it was my lack of experience with this type of map or the testosterone-poisoned barbs and AI but this struck me as one of the harder Emp games I've played. Still fun, though. I belatedly realized that this setup really called for having minor cities build wealth to sustain teching--it was really slow in the midgame. As I mentioned in my first spoiler post, SB DoWed me and I beat him back (with some worrying moments). I was beelining for Eng/trebs and all set to go after Sully when SB DoWed me again, so I had to shift everything south. I was just about to cap him when Alex snatched him away. .

Then back up north to take out Sully. Things were going fine but then Alex DoWed me so I capped Sully before I wanted to. Alex had a big stack of knights, etc. that took out my biggest stack (with a GG ) but I had enough middling stacks to eventually cap him. It took awhile, though, ultimately requiring cannon. I had a monopoly on Steel until probably the last dozen turns of the game, which was really nice, although I was way behind Sury and Huayna in techs nearly the whole game and they got Rifling quite a bit before I did. My CR3 maces upgraded to rifles scythed through things quite nicely, though, when I got it. Washington was fighting Sury and Huayna (voluntary vassal to Sury) for a long time so fell to me pretty quickly. I then had to pause for half a dozen turns to get Railroad and Mguns to defend my stacks before going after Huayna. I was just about to take his last city and attack the first of Sury's cities when I hit the Dom limit. Not that I'm complaining too much--Sury had a stack of 25 knights and almost as many rifles/cannon/trebs coming after Atlanta, an outlying city I'd captured from Washington. I'd gathered most of my forces in a smaller but higher-quality stack to go after Khmer-occupied Philadelphia. It would have been a glorious battle!

Used a Great Spy to steal a couple techs (Lib'ism, something else). Ran 2 GAs--didn't do a very good job of getting enough or the right kind of GPs. I really should try this again with a rush of some kind (how did you feel the Feud/knights rush worked, kcd, and do you think it would have worked on Emperor?) but with CivV so close it ain't gonna happen.

 

[simplethink]

Domination win - 1912ad. It's late, but I'm happy
I struggled to stay alive until about 500ad - last in techs, last in cities, last in score and only able to put 30-40% on the science slider. 3 things kept me alive - sharing hinduism with SB, Suleiman and Washington, the great wall, and building military units constantly (even outdated ones) to keep me close in military power with Alex.

About 500 AD, Alex and Suleiman blew their stacks on each other and I seized the moment, declaring war. Even with inferior units (no trebs, only catapults!) i rolled over greece, taking all his cities. Now I have momentum! Suleiman, Washington, HC, SB and Sury are beating the crap out of each other with no winner. Out of nowhere, HC voluntarily capitulates to me, then I surprise attack Suleiman into capitulation. By now, I've caught up in tech and my infantry and cannon make short work out of SB's rifles. Quickly take two cities from Washington, he capitulates and domination victory is complete - 1912ad.

I'm a builder by nature and even when I think I'm playing aggressively, i'm not. After reading some of the posts above I have a much greater understanding of the commitment it takes to kick ass in a game surrounded by warmongers. Also, I've underestimated the benefits of using great spies to steal techs... I'll have to try that next time.