BOTM 45 - Final Spoiler- Game submitted or abandoned

[kcd_swede]

BOTM 45 Final Spoiler

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 43 (Charlemagne), then you MUST NOT read this thread unless

• you have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

..........................................

If you haven't already done so in the first spoiler, I would encourage you to tell us about your early game (up to about 3000BC) first:
Where did you settle? Why?
What were your first 3 techs? Why?
What were your first 4 builds? Why?
Did you prioritize any tile improvements? Which ones?
Find any use for the unique unit (Hwacha)?


Did you have fun????

[img=right]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/botm45civ.jpg[/img]

 

[neilmeister]

Diplomatic Victory in 1822.

First spoiler here

Did I have fun?
Hell yeah. Winning a high level difficulty game you are convinced is lost is always deeply satisfying.

I finished teching Theology 2 turns too late, but I started building the AP anyway, as I still thought it was my best chance, as Hindu had just spread to me, and it was only being run by Isabella. So, I built a missionary to infect the cap so that I could switch before it was finished. I abused whip overflow with swords, I could put 9 hammers into a sword and 2 pop whip it the next turn for 29 hammer overflow. Did this several times shrinking my caps pop significantly without having to stop working its hammer tiles. Alas, I got beaten to it by 1 turn (which would have been 2 actually, as I needed to switch religion)

From there my only chance was Diplo; I shared Judaism with 3 AI, including the runaway Romans. I was first to Caravels, and got lucky when I discovered the island reasonably early. So Astro followed closely and I claimed a few cities on the island. It was at this time that I got DoWed by Hammurabi , who was on the other side of the map. Hwachas were very useful as I could do collateral damage to his large stacks, but the whole war cost me a lot, as I had to produce spears/longbows/maces/hwachas everywhere to hold my cities. He took peace after a few centuries for very favourable terms. Techs, gold and gpt.

I didn't claim the whole island for many centuries, as the last barb city had 6 longbows in it, on a hill. I had to wait until rifles, and even they didn't get very good odds.

Diplomacy was working out really well, as Giggles and KK went to war with Isabella and asked me to join in. I almost tripped over myself in my eagerness to say yes. Thus I was at war with Izzy for the rest of the game ~600 years. Caeser and Monty were in and out of war with each other for most of the game, which really helped to slow him down. Hammurabi switched to Judaism, which meant 4 AI's were sharing it, that and a shared love of Beauracracy meant that even though we had a war, we were firm friends, until he went FR that is. A few juicy techs managed to convince him to switch back to Judaism.

So it was that I slow built the UN (those Seowons helped I'm sure). On the first vote I has Giggles, KK & Hammurabi vote for me. KK was at +21 with me, I have never seen a number so high. Problem was that we were 30 voted short, and Monty and Isabells were both furious, so there were no votes there. It was at this point my wife came in and gave me a death look (it was 1.30am and I had been playing a single marathon session).

The next day, with Ceaser having ~5 times my power, I DoWed him. Giggles and KK very helpfully teched Artillery and Assembly line just after the war started, so Infantry & Artillery meant I could take two border cities and try to hold on.
See how close the final vote was:

Spoiler :

 

[azzaman333]

Spaceship loss to Rome in 1936AD.

Due to my painfully slow expansion, Rome was a monster. So naturally, I sucked up to him as much as possible to keep him from attacking me. Fortunately he was too busy with Kublai most of the time to worry about me. Gilly was slowly eradicating Monty and Izzy, while going for a culture victory. Hammy beelined Mass Media, giving me no chance of winning via UN.

So, that left Space. I got the Internet, and got the GE from Fusion, but Rome just had too much production for me. Launched his ship before I could get a single Casing built, and then the bastard rubbed salt into the wounds by destroying my parts as his ship flew to AC. Still, ended up a lot closer to winning than I would've thought possible, so reasonably happy with how the game went.

 

[kcd_swede]

Nice finish, Neilmeister! Thanks for a great write-up, too. Glad you had fun!

Better luck next time azzaman333. Sounds like you are almost there, though.

 

[Greeder]

Domination in 1870 AD. I was waiting for ever to DoW Julius, but then I was so advanced that in 170 years I killed everyone except Isabel. I was going for conquest until I realized how high my score is, and then done everything to finish asap and milk my scores.
I finished with above 100k, and Adventurer rounded it to 86k.
This is my best score ever in BOTM! Almost two times better than second best.
Maybe next week I will write more.

 

[kcd_swede]

Domination in 1870 AD. I was waiting for ever to DoW Julius, but then I was so advanced that in 170 years I killed everyone except Isabel. I was going for conquest until I realized how high my score is, and then done everything to finish asap and milk my scores.
I finished with above 100k, and Adventurer rounded it to 86k.
This is my best score ever in BOTM! Almost two times better than second best.
Maybe next week I will write more.

Congrats! Now you know that getting a good head start is enough to get you a win on immortal! Hope that gives you confidence to beat the contenders next time, but most of all I hope it was fun!

 

[Greeder]

Next time? On deity? No way!
And BOTMs are always fun for me. Stake is always high, pressure, adrenaline... definitely fun. As I said, I will write more about my game soon.

 

[Rusten]

Challenger domination win: 1755 AD

Did you have fun????

Yes!

Barely played CIV this year so this game was a real challenge. I had my hands full making sure I was going to win -- at least during the challenging early game. Planning for an early victory date proved too hard.

Also enjoyed winning by military while behind on tech for once. Reminded me of the Taxman SG at times. I stopped research at rifling+MT+artillery and started stockpiling gold for rush-buy. You can get pretty insane production with this. Around 1400 AD I think I was making at least 1000 GPT, which is 500 HPT with Kremlin rush-buy. Then there's the regular hammers on top of that.

Some funny moments towards the end throwing units away with no thinking involved. When you have 200 cavalry you can just a-move.

 

[kcd_swede]

Challenger domination win: 1755 AD

Did you have fun????

Yes!

Thanks for proving the Challenger save is winnable. (I know as mapmaker I should do that in testing, but tbh with Deity level so few of them are winnable for me, and if I make it winnable for me then the real Deity players don't feel challenged ).

 

[srad]

Challenger domination win: 1755 AD

Congrats for winning this game on Deity level!

I went domination with the contender save (1560AD) and it was really a interesting game! I'll post some details later.

 

[Habitus]

Well, i quit in the bcs after i lost 3 warriors at sub 20% odds, the last one spawn busting near the horses abit west and south of capitol, a barb city spawned there the next turn. Just didn't have the energy to carry on, first time in awhile that i've lost on immortal. Grats to all the people who finished

 

[Rusten]

Did anyone else have trouble with the AP?

In my game a small Babylon built it, which meant that a religious victory was a real threat.
I had to convert to a small religion -> bribe Gilgamesh into it -> convert to FR to be safe.

I can imagine quite a few losses to AP Monty or Izzy with Gilgamesh as the 2nd voter thanks to HR bonuses. The fact that Rome seals us off stops any religion spread as well which means that our influence on AP decisions is minimal. There's bound to be war here as well with Izzy and Monty starting next to each other so mutual war struggle adds even more bonus points. Also no vassal states which means no botched relationships after capitulation.

 

[srad]

Where did you settle? Why?
1NE. Moving the mouse around I got the blue 'settle adviser' two times. SE and NE of the starting position. So the warrior went NE and revealed the pig and corn. 1NE has food and hammers -with the HE the city was able to build a Cuirassier per turn- but very commerce poor.

What were your first 3 techs? Why?
Agri, AH, TW - for improvements and connecting the second city.

What were your first 4 builds? Why?
Worker, Warrior, Worker, Settler - second worker before settler because I was so short on worker turns.

Did you prioritize any tile improvements? Which ones?
Sure. Corn, Pig, Mines

Find any use for the unique unit (Hwacha)?
No. I don't like to fight against Praetorians - only with superior hardware



The start wasn't easy for my taste, especially with my capital location research was very limited. I went for the Great Wall and could also luckily claim Stonehenge after the GW:

2000BC GW
1760BC Stonehenge - saves a lot of hammers for monuments

But commerce was still an issue. The Great Lighthouse would be nice for this starting area and the Oracle is always great. But I already spent hammers for two wonders and trying to get one of these wonders would be too much of a gamble now. So I decided to set up a cottage city (city #3 on the PH 1NW of the sheep).

Hindu was spread to me and the two other big players were also Hindu (Augustus and Gilga) so I could peacefully tech to MT. Monte the maniac traded Marble so I was able to build The Great Lib, NE and HE - all in the capital.
I got several Great Spies but I don't know how to make good use of them and spent them for GAs.

After MT I started the Conquest (ok, actually the goal had to be Domination): Augustus, Monte, Khan, Hammurabi, Isabella - End 1560AD, Score a bit below 300k.

 

[kcd_swede]

Where did you settle? Why?
1NE. Moving the mouse around I got the blue 'settle adviser' two times. SE and NE of the starting position. So the warrior went NE and revealed the pig and corn. 1NE has food and hammers -with the HE the city was able to build a Cuirassier per turn- but very commerce poor.

..
After MT I started the Conquest (ok, actually the goal had to be Domination): Augustus, Monte, Khan, Hammurabi, Isabella - End 1560AD, Score a bit below 300k.

Nice use of the game interface! Something for less experienced players to learn from.

Very impressive result for what was a (IMO) fairly difficult map.

 

[Ronnie1]

Terribly played early....way too slow to expand. Then Rome DoW's followed by a series of game crashes. I retired.

 

[Greeder]

Ok continuing from 1 AD:
350 AD I converted to Buddism.
680 AD I declared on Gilgamesh on Isabel's request. It was just first from series of pony wars I started for her or Julius. I declared on everyone else one moment or other.
Around 1000 AD I got techs parity with Isabel who was tech monster. Education and Korean's universities made tech lead possible. 1160 AD I discovered Liberalism. I delayed Lib purposely to get best tech free possible.
I saw 3 turns before finishing Gunpowder that Isabel got Education and risked Lib to gain Chemistry. I succeeded.
From that moment I started slowly building my army. First CR Macemen with the thought of upgrading them to Rifles.
I traded for Banking and was able to get Economy first and free GM. Trade mission would be a failure - just 1500 gp. So I used him and GSpy to fuel my second GA.
During GA I discovered Steel, but I hadn't Rifles or Grenadiers. And my army was almost non-existant - one cannon, few trebs, several Macemen. What is more Julius already had Grennadiers. The whole world was in peace.
So I focused on building army and military research. At 1500 AD Monty attacked Julius. He asked me to wipe out Aztecs, I agreed and first time in this game I sent some troops for war. I wanted GG but failed miserably. Monty had Grenadiers and he killed several of my cannons. I retreated and waited for MGuns. KK joined war at Monty's side.
1510 I discovered RR. 1540 Gilgamesh DoWed Julius, Hammurabi attacked him (probably bribed by Julius).
I inconporated Mining Inc in Wonsan, my holy Confu city. For start it was worth +6 hammers. I spreaded it to 6-7 cities.
1575 AD I started to conscript Infantry. Building Pentagon took me 9 or 11 turns in my Ironworks city. It was finished 1590 AD. HE+Moai city was spitting modern units every 2 turns. I fought a little with Monty on Julius ground, but finished just 2 points short from GG.
I made peace with KK, in case he would made it with Julius. I wanted my neighbour involved in as many conflicts as possible.
I discovered Facism hoping for Paratroopers. I learned then that I need also Flight.
At 1620 AD I bribed Isabel to attack Hammurabi. Only she wasn't involved in war up to date. Next turn I discovered Physics.
1665 AD I discovered Artillery, last piece needed for invasion on Romans.
1685 I DoWed Julius. Two turns later I captured his good border city. I sent also small stack to capture tundra city on his shore. I took me next 2 turns. The only bad news was that he discovered RR recently. MGuns were pain in the ass, but luckily he just upgraded few units to them.
I discovered or traded Democracy hoping for SoL, didn't noticed Hammurabi has built it already. Anyway I needed Emancipation for happiness.
I waited in captured cities for Julius SoD, but it has never appeared. I just had to kill one stack of dozen Cavalaries and 2 cannons. Being involved in war on 3 other fronts it was all Julius could send.
So at 1725 AD I got 2 more of his cities. Till 1750 he lost one more to me and 3 others to others, so he made peace with Gilgamesh and Monty. Didn't help him, I discovered Flight 1765 AD. Two turns later captured next city.
BTW, I suffered from click mistake. I wanted to upgrade several CR Maces to Infantry and upgraded them to MGuns. Several hundreads gps lost.
I've been chosen religious leader and declared holy war against Hammurabi.
1806 AD Julius was destroyed. I regrouped. Monty has open borders with me so I sent Infantry and Artillery to his cities next to KK border. I gathered Paratroopers and Destroyesr near his shore cities. I had even one Bomber at that time. And 6 Fighters, another click mistake - I didn't want to upgrade four Airships...
Anyway it took me just 3 turns to capture his 4 cities.
At 1818 AD Hammurabi ceased to exist, buddists finished him. 1836 I finished KK. Next turn I attacked Monty. Next turn I razed one city and captured two more.
From now on victory was just formality. Around 1845 I realized my scores and switched from Conquest to Domination asap.
1850 I attacked Gilgamesh, 1854 finished Monty, 1866 finished Gilgamesh in the meantime I founded 4-5 new cities to pop my borders faster.
1870 AD, domination victory, 88k.

 

[kcd_swede]

@Greeder

Congrats! A military victory on Immortal level (even with the substantial start bonus) requires a lot of skill!

 

[WelshGandalf]

Did anyone else have trouble with the AP?

Oooh ooh!! I did!!

I took the contender save, made a post in the first spoiler post but basically I settled the GS, burned the GE on pyramids, switched into representation, oracled MC and used my second GE (from the pyramids) on bulbing machinery. Was going to crossbow-rush my enemy until I saw that, for the 2nd game in succession, it was the Romans.

So, I went into peace mode, settled to 8 cities and teched towards space. It was going quite well and I was pretty much first in tech as I finished Education in 840AD at around 330 bpt, planning to go Philo -> Lib -> take PP then work towards astronomy. However, as I finshed Education, *every* civilziation declared war on me


After discussing with kcd_swede, we figured out that it was an AP vote. What happened was the Aztecs were at war with the Spanish. They asked me to join in, which I did - I shared religion with Aztecs, Romans and Mongolians so I propritised good relations with them. However, then the Spanish built the AP & passed a motion to declare war on me. I never saw this vote, as I had no cities with the Spanish religion (apparently though, all the other civilizations had at least 1 city with that religion...)

I gave up around 1140AD as my capital was about to fall to Rome's SoD. Could not stand up to his sheer numbers and slightly superior tech (knights vs longbows & later musketeers vs longbows). Might've been different if I had drafting & gunpowder. Disappointed they didn't go for my hill-city at all as I thought that was closest to their borders.

Lesson learned - I should've accepted Spain's peace negotiatons (they were offering my 20 gold for peace!) rather than try to keep relations with the Aztecs even higher.

 

[godotnut]

I played an entirely peaceful, cruiser-mode game, aiming for fastest space race. I didn't want to face the Romans until I had a big tech lead, and as it turned out, I never did. But I did manage to settle 11 cities of my own (couple from barbs actually), which is sub-optimal (too few) but decent enough I figured.

I settled over to the east on the coast and spread my cities out in a westward facing fan-shape, plus two cities later on the NE island.

I did my usual tech path, but I did make some fairly unusual early choices (for me anyway), including building the Great Wall as well as the Pyramids early. I skipped the Oracle, which I almost never do on Immortal when going for space, and I hard built the GL. Later I bulbed the Hoover dam with an engineer.

Rome eliminated Mongolia and later HC, with the help of the Sumerians. I was forced into war with Mongolia by an Apostolic Palace vote, which turned out to be helpful for me diplomatically. In fact, I could have probably won a faster diplo win in retrospect, though I decided on space early and didn't consider other options while playing the game.

I did have fun. It was a fairly uneventful game, but everything went as planned, which is always nice, and while my date isn't the greatest (1898AD), I felt that it was a fairly focused game.

Thanks kcd swede!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm really angry. I got a horrid dose of luck AND misplayed. If I didn't, I'd have won from the challenger save.

Went for culture. Had peaceful relations with everybody except monty who just got dogpiled and died. It turned into a race between me and izzy for culture (nobody would get space before either of us). With her about 30 turns in front of me, I decided to briber BOTH Gilgamesh (12 cities) and Kublai (9 cities) against Izzy (9 cities).

You'd have thought that a 2v1 where the 2 have a tech lead could ACTUALLY TAKE JUST ONE CITY. But no, they did not.

Thats where luck screw stops, and my misplay begins. I could have won anyway, and very easily. I just realized it too late (about 15 turns left):

1. Spam chariot
2. Gift to gilgamesh

I could obviously 1/turn chariots in my cities, which meant for the most part gilgamesh could have had 50-100 cavalry from me very easily. But no, I had to not think of that until it was too late. Damn it.

I quit in frustration, but since I was on pace for a mid 1800's culture win it wasn't so bad until I blew it at the end.