BOTM05 First spoiler

DynamicSpirit

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BOTM05 First Spoiler



Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 04, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
  • You must have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
  • You have submitted your entry

So how did the vultures turn out? Superpowerful or useless? Did you make use of the ziggurats to finance an early expansion? What kind of difference did having so many AIs make?
 
Posting Restrictions

  • Please do not discuss anything post 500 AD.
  • Please do not discuss any events in locations or reveal details of any parts of the map not discoverable by a warrior walking within about 20-25 tiles of the start location.
  • Please do not name any civs whose capitals are not similarly reachable.
 
Contender Save; Goal = Space Race victory before 1900ad

I settled in place and deviated from my usual play by building worker first rather than waiting for pop2. I planned to take Lexad's advice to heart and try a Vulture rush to clear some space and instead of REX. Tech'd toward BW then IW (not seeing any copper) then AH.

Warrior explored southward and discovered marble/gold in mountain pass, where I built second city. Lousy growth... probably should have picked a better spot. Thought the marble would get me Oracle... but I missed out on it by a couple turns anyhow. Third city went five or six paces east to claim resource. Popped and cut out a force of 8 Vults and sent them South since this was the only area I had reached someones border (Portugal), and they lead in score and have the largest civ. Took 3 cities (including capitol) defended by 2 archers each without losing a single unit. I guess those Vults really work when used correctly. :-) I would have liked Portugal to capitulate. I never got that option, though. I assume I needed to have Feudalism to enable him as a Vassal for that option to appear? That was a miscalculation then.

Then my units go on strike. Peace... damn - I fear not eliminating him will come back to bite me. So I worked some gold and silver at the expense of starvation in order to prevent any units from disbanding. Managed to get back research to about 20% fairly quickly. My Civ is like a long purple line, though, so I set on building Ziggs like crazy. Had to settle another two cities E and W of Cap just to have enough to qualify for a Forbidden Palace which I will definitely need with my geography.

500AD I am close in techs to the civs I know, (and I know them all but one at this point) and lead in score. I am the biggest and have some really good cities. Once I build that FP, I am set to leave them all in the dust. Finish off Jaoa seems a priority.

This all seems too easy. Maybe too good to be true?

Wonders built: Pyr, GW (it only took 9 turns and I thought maybe a GSpy would be fun to play with - probably just a stupid distraction, but WTH), and not sure dates on others so I won't mention. Usually I go for SH, but don't need it with Cre trait, and doesn't go well with early rush strategy anyhow.

So far I am satisfied with my game, even though I see I made some errors in judgement and execution. I have a pretty good basis for a very good civ. Should be able to win without too much worry.
 
This was a fun game. I was very irritated by losing it in the end, this would have been my first-ever win on Monarch. I'll save details of what ultimately happened for the later spoiler threads.

I thought "no city razing" was really what made this game interesting, I had never played with that option before. It was quite a shock, when I looked at the statistics at the end of the game, to realize I had never founded more than 4 cities the entire game. It really affects your decisions when you can't raze and rebuild.

I chose to found my second city to the east. I quickly realized from exploring that Hammurabi was my closest neighbor; I caught a glimpse of his UU and realized he would be a huge pain to rush. I rushed a settler for my third city since I wanted to claim the gold resource to the south-southwest before he did; it wound up as a really close race between settlers and I ended up having to settle a space or two away from the optimal spot just so he wouldn't found his city first. He wound up founding a city just 3 spaces south of mine, which wasn't a smart decision by the AI since my cultural borders inevitably ate his up.

I decided I wasn't going to be expanding anywhere without taking out Hammurabi, so I ignored early wonders and focused exclusively on a military buildup. I wound up taking him out with, essentially, a truly massive stack of vultures, although the war dragged on long enough I was able to bring in some tougher units like elephants. I wound up with all of Hammurabi's territory, except for a couple of southern cities that were swallowed up by another civ (whose name everyone probably knows, but I'll leave it out just in case). Sometime during the war I snuck a settler off to my west to found a city by the lake and grab the resource there; that city obviously had very limited potential, but it was clearly profitable from the start so there was no reason not to found it.

I'm eager to be able to post the whole game to get some insights from the stronger players on where I went wrong, but I certainly think this early game put me in a nice position to consolidate and build a strong economy for teching. You certainly can't leverage Gilgamesh's UB without REX or an early war that conquers cities! I think I finished this phase of the game with 4 of my own cities and 4 of Hammurabi's, so that's where we'll leave it.
 
I usually play Immortal nowadays, so this game was relatively straightforward, tho this will be the first botm that Ill be submitting on time.

I began my game extremely pleased to find a second rice recourse and then a gold recourse to the south. I researched straight to animal husbandry first, no forests means no real need for chopping. I then believe I grew to size 2 before building the second worker, and then grew to three in order to get the silver before building my settler (it was something like this).

I settled on a green hill to the south, where it could work the irrigated rice recourse and get the marble and gold. Probably should have researched ironworking prior to alphabet, as the other civs were more or less useless in keeping up in tech with me even remotely. Regardless, I was able to time settling in range of the copper and dear to the east precisely on target with getting ironworking.

After linking up my copper, I had 3 10 - 14 production cities, with a huge economy supported by the silver and gold and two scientists which had almost produced the first gs at this point. So, naturually, I saw hannibals 3 ridiculously food abundant river cities to the south and I got a little giddy.

I scouted his territory, and each of his threenearby cities were guarded by like a single bowman. Regardless, I wanted to play it safe, so I built up a dual task force, one consisting of 5 vultures, the other consisting of 6. Being a normal speed game, I wanted the war to be over before it really started. So, I declared war on hannibal, three turns later with a casuality of a single vulture, my empires size had doubled, I now controlled the Jewish holy city, and a few workers to boot, I was quite pleased. (hannibal did however, have one random hill city far to the south, more trouble than it was worth so i just let him be.)

My next move was to grow my capitol and my third city to the east of my capitol a little bit, due to both of there abundance of food, this was relatively easy to do. my gold city to the south I simply left in equilibrium at pop 5, with 14 production while working a gold mine, so it just kept on producing vultures. (I also built zigarats in the two hannibal cities I conquered).

After maybe 20 turns of regrouping myself and reinforcing the previous armies used to invade hannibal. I had maybe 5 or so catipults in addition to roughly 14 vultures. Again, I split this force into two main attack groups, one coming from the south, and one from the north to invade isabella. I took 4 of her cities within 10 - 15 turns (which is like 300 years in game time, her empire was quite a hike).

So that is essentially where I am right now. Roughly 500 ad, Im going to make Madrid my heroic epic city, debating on which of hannibals ridiculously food abudant cities to make my gp farm (leaning towards the jewish holy city). Im easily double the score of all the other civs, ages ahead of them in tech, and militarily I've got plenty of surviving vultures, no one would attack me so Im free to focus on building up a massive cottage economy.

On a side note, I got two pretty sweet random events, a +free scientist and a +3 health thing in capitol city (beaurcracy anyone?). I also got a quest to build 6 stables, not sure if ill take advantage.

Im basically ignoring diplomacy completly, tho the incans are Jewish and friendly with me, so that will probably prove beneficial. Everyone else is pleased or cautious, but I dont really care. They dont have any techs or recourses to trade for.

I plan on winning a domination victory by 1600 ad, but with normal time speed it will probably end up being more like 1800 :(
 
Howdy people! This is my first post on this site, but I’ve been lurking for years, mostly to glean what I could from the tactics posted on the site to increase the difficulty I play under. Just some brief info: I have owned every copy of Civilization starting with the first on floppy, played on a Tandy 1000! I held off on Civ 4 until the release of Warlords primarily because my computer couldn’t handle the new fangled graphics very well. Anyway, this is my first attempt at a GOTM, and I primarily play at Prince level on all the versions of Civ, mainly because after that, the AI just cheated to much, but things are different in Civ 4, and I’m trying to move up so I thought I would give this BOTM a try.

My general strategy is to whip out 3 or 4 cities, then go on the attack for most of the game, usually winning by domination, this map I did basically the same, but I’m a bit unprepared for the Monarch Level AI’s. Looks like my tactics are not very well tuned for this level of difficulty, and looks like vassilization is going to be my only chance at victory.

I went after Hammurabi as quick as I could with Vultures and had him mostly destroyed by 500AD. I had a rather scary incident happen after I had captured his juicy capital. Out of the blue (black actually), in marches 6 swordsmen headed straight for it. After scrolling back, I see that someone triggered the event but apparently the AI the swordsmen were supposed to go after had the Great Wall, so they diverted to me. Ugh! I actually had this happen to me some weeks ago but reverse, the GW kept the stack of archers from attacking me, and moved off to deliver pain to some other AI. So anyway, I’m facing 6 Swordsmen heading straight for my newly captured capitol. But, through frequent whipping of Vultures, I was able to hold off the swordsmen for several rounds, finally destroying them leaving me with one highly promoted but highly wounded Vulture. I find axmen a surprising good defender given certain circumstances.

I noticed no one seems to have mentioned the wall of mountains to our west that effectively makes a nice impassible border thereby focusing our movement south and east. I love having my back to a wall or an ocean instead of multiple fronts. This helped me quite a bit as I’m not too good at Monarch Level.

So at around 500AD, I have Hammurabi basically beaten, I have Isabelle to the east and Joao pressing in from the southwest. I’m not too confident at this moment, my economy is in shambles and my army is becoming quickly outdated. I normally play on Epic as Normal speed is just to fast for me. The upside is I have a lot of land, a few good cities and lead in score with near parity in Tech with the leader. But I fear *I* will have to be the lapdog of a certain to be named later Evil AI.

I have used the lapdog tactic before quite well, as I am usually closer to the targets he was to destroy, and can usually steal cities they are attacking after they work them down some. I’m crossing my fingers but I fear I was too slow, and will probably get bogged down in the 1800’s.
 
Never won a BTS game above Noble so I took the adventurer save. Like others, I settled the second city in the mountain pass to the south. Picked up the Oracle (for MC or Construction, I forget). My rush skills are poor so when I saw the ivory I decided on an elephant assault with archer backup. I chopped out 6 pachyderms and rumbled through Hammurabi.

I explored very little, but I believe all the AIs found me pretty quickly. With so many to choose from beelining alphabet proved very profitable. At 500AD I have a healthy tech and score lead.

As usual my GP strategy was hopeless. So far I've managed just one prophet (from Oracle - used for a golden age). I just can't seem to find a city to become a farm - they're all apparently busy just trying to survive.

A peek at the espionage screen reveals some rivals are devoting serious spy points to me. A bit of 'tall poppy' syndrome perhaps? I'm clueless here too and not sure how to put a spanner in the spooks.

I decided early on to go for a culture win. I'll leave the AIs to struggle with badly-sited cities and post-conquest flipping. Question is whether I can reach the points totals quickly enough given my likely shortage of great artists (and only 2 religions so far) and so many enemies to keep at bay.

nokem
 
With the easy ziggurats and decent UU, I decided why not try a domination win. One of the real beauties of vultures that nobody has mentioned is their immunity to chariots.- which is enough in my mind to call them a cheaper sword. With all the rice i decided to skip animal husbandry and work on a high commerce producing line by going Mining (for the silver) then pottery followed by writing (to start open borders relations bonus earlier) then bronze (since you really need both bronze and writing to pop a library, you may as well spend bronze working turns building the library to speed it up and reduce the pop rush cost. I built a worker first then started the granary and libraries.

Started exploring east and then planned to circle back south to the west and see what land I had to get in to. Met Hammurabi lightning fast, and after seeing the bronze covered by jungle, decided that vultures were not the way to go against that UU, and decided instead to beeline straight for catapults. Got my great sci and some cottages going, and mined the hills. Once I hit contruction I changed all laborers to catapults. After seeing him quickly spread judaism to me (due to open borders) I also traded him writing early to encourage him to spread judaism, which he did an excellent job of (and which made life much easier for me later by making neighbors happy with me and my conquered jewish cities).

So, with my 2 total cities I built about 4 cats and sent a couple of archers actually and a warrior and I think I had 1 vulture by then if I remember right to start and started after hammurabi. Catapults were definitely the right decision. Hammurabi fell with little resistance, poor fella has pitiful production in his capital city, but its a nice commerce city for me now. After I got feudalism it still took reducing him to 1 city to get the capitulate. I gifted him 2 of his crappy land southern cities back, which immediately put us back on very good terms and reduced my maintenace., and left him as a buffer zone between me and the neighbor to his south. I usually go for religious, or conquest...and did not know until today that vassal's can have superior culture on a tile within the master's fat cross, and yet the tile will still be owned by the master. I like that.

Had a nice group of catapults and elephants then and started in to Isabella. Used my first great general to make a Medic 3 healer, which has also helped a lot. I should have converted to vassalage much earlier though to get those CRII catapults - oh well. And I should have used my espionage against 1 civ only to see about some tech stealing (forgot as well). As of 500AD, Isabella is in trouble because I have a nice force heading straight at her and she does not have construction yet, and I have done well at getting more distant enemies to fight eachother including any neighbors that could help her easily - in fact, she could not trade resources with any one even if she wanted since between closed borders with me, my vassal and 1 other civ, she will never get a trade route with anyone going again.. Need to do better resource trading myself though. Judging by the lands I am conquering, I am getting much better land than building would give me, and much of it is already jungle cleared. I have been debating though gifting one city right in the middle of my empire to a vassal in the future though because of the dense jungle....not sure yet what I will do there.

I have made a lot of mistakes this game, but so far feel like I am still on track. I lead in land, and in tech. And once I can get some trebs rolling on 3 move roads.......I expect the pace to pick up.
 
Huum.... at 500 AD i had take all Isabela's cities and i was on the way to take Hamurabi too.
The map allows me to settle 4 more cities before i went to war. In fact Spain attack me before me so this war was longer from what i wanted to be. That slow start lead me to go after conquest because it is more tricky with "no city razing".
 
Hello all, I have been a lurker here for years and years, and finally got around to make my first post :)

I've played Civ on and off since the original Civ for DOS, and have just recently begun playing Civ IV again after about a year off. So I have never played Warlords or BtS before, and I figured the BOTM would be a great way to get started.

Anyway, back to the game. I settled in the starting position, and went for the techs necessary to make use of the nearby resources. Built a couple of Warriors, a Worker and a Settler after a while. Settled my next city to the East. Went for Pottery and started building cottages on the grassland tiles.

Didn't really have a master plan at this point, so just let the cities grow while scouting a bit. Ddin't go for any Wonders or Religions, able to keep Science slider at 80-90% percent most of the time. After a while I built my third city to the west of my capital, next to the lake tile between the mountains.

Around 500 AD my two first cities are around size 14, the third one is about 7, and I'm about to settle my fourth city to the south in the mountain pass next to the gold. I'm also building a bit of an army, based on Vultures, catapults and elephants.

My plan now is to harass a few of my neighbours just to get used to combat again, have fun and just see how things play out :)
 
shouldn't this thread be stickied?

Anyway,
Initially I settled one space W, don't think it changed much of anything as opposed to settling in place. second city I settled to the East and the third just below the hills to the South. I had a faily decent start, wasn't clear on the victory condition I was trying for. Was concidering warring with Hammurabia, but his bowmen looked intimidating, but was building up an army none the less; planning on pointing my army at Joao. I was thinking about diplo victory as well, so was pretty much accepting any offers or demands, and trying to build up relationships. anyway I got invited by Mao (I think) to join a war on Joao, so I accepted it. Unfortunately I wasn't quite ready for it. I lost quite a few units as they straggled down to seige one of Joao's city. eventually managed to capture one city, but at much cost and over quite a long period of time.
I'd settled another city as well during this time.

Since this is all off the top of my head, I'm not sure how far to describe, which will still be pre-500AD so I'll stop now. Also the contraints at the top prevent my from talking about anything more than 20 or so tiles away so won't go into reporting on what my scouts found out about the lay of the land.
 
I actually settled NE, which brought 2 luxury resources into play. I was able to settle a good 6 cities with at least 2 resources visible in the BFC. However, space seemed pretty constrained with the jungle making it hard to expand. I had hoped to claim the pigs in the jungle but Isabella got them.

Hammy to the South meant that invading wasn't an option until I got catapults. Therefore, I concentrated on building up my cities and improving land with workers. I have one big production city in the south in the hills w/ a farm on rice, and to make it grow more I'll have to windmill a few tiles. The mountains in the west at least provide a nice defense.

When I got to construction, I built up a catapult and vulture army. I DOW'ed on Hammy around 325AD and took his northern holy confused city. This being the goal, I stopped, for the moment. Good thing too, because Monty DOW'ed on me right before the cut-off, but only had A LONE JAGUAR attacking. Silly Monty.

I'm gambling that Izzy and I can stay friends...somehow
 
Hi!
We have the Easter vacation till the 4th of May, so I spent the first day of the vacation playing BOTM. This game is much fun, my ragardts to the authors!

Besides the capital I founded 3 more cities forming a T-like shape and later with one more city placed in correct place and correct time I managed to take a couple of resourses from Joao.

I didn't wage war during these turns, but I lost one city to barbarians (losing a battle with about 80% chance for success) and then reconquered it back.

I have constructed the following wonders in the capital:
The Great Wall
The Temple of Artemis
The Parthenon
Swendragon Paya
Great Library

I tried to get Buerocracy with the Orcle, but I lacked some 2-3 turns and Isabella was the wirst with it.

The most interesting phase of the game for me started after 1000 AD, but this should be in another spoiler.
 
I actually settled NE, which brought 2 luxury resources into play. I was able to settle a good 6 cities with at least 2 resources visible in the BFC. However, space seemed pretty constrained with the jungle making it hard to expand. I had hoped to claim the pigs in the jungle but Isabella got them.

Hammy to the South meant that invading wasn't an option until I got catapults. Therefore, I concentrated on building up my cities and improving land with workers. I have one big production city in the south in the hills w/ a farm on rice, and to make it grow more I'll have to windmill a few tiles. The mountains in the west at least provide a nice defense.

When I got to construction, I built up a catapult and vulture army. I DOW'ed on Hammy around 325AD and took his northern holy confused city. This being the goal, I stopped, for the moment. Good thing too, because Monty DOW'ed on me right before the cut-off, but only had A LONE JAGUAR attacking. Silly Monty.

I'm gambling that Izzy and I can stay friends...somehow

What made you settle north east from the opening screen?>
 
Arrrrggghhh... I got shat on!

Started of really strong, like most people settled East for the Copper and South for the Marble. Up until about 0 AD I was in the lead, vaguely planning for a Culture win... got all the Wonders I aimed for... then my plan was to battle a Civ down a few cities to show dominance and get the extra cities with new resources... got my Faux-Axe out, would have his Babylon but his Bows scared me, so went after Isabel - took our first city (Barcelona) with 4 Dye no problem, kept pushing to take Madrid (which had cows) but I was too slow and she got her defense up in time, she wouldn't talk peace and I lost Dye City and got my arse pushed back... so way to much time was spent trying to keep up in the battle and even after peace (about 300ADish now) I couldn't reclaim the lead I had...

I'm sure the maths weren't working right, because Spain's Chariots took our my Vulture with too much ease (in attack they were fine, but defense, even on a jungle-hill, with 2+ promotions they always got wiped out). Should have waited a dozen more turns for one huge wave rather than 2-3 smaller waves of attack (she retook Barcelona, because apparently Vultures and Archers defending a city with protection isn't enough ?!?!). Also messed up early in my techs by aiming for Alphabet rather than Iron Working (forgot I needed it to cut jungles THEN get the copper). So my initial attack was probably too late to make it a short concisive war.

But I'm still standing with none of my own cities having been taken... far from the lead and if I can pick the right war or two and aim my techs right with some key city building I'll definately stand a chance for a victory.
 
My plan was to go for a diplomatic game. The back door diplomatic type with the sword or should I say axe.

The plan went pretty much out of control due to some monster AI's.

Settled in the spot and expanded hoping for blocking out civs but by the time the settlers got to there planned spots Both Hamurabi and Joah had planeted cities. So alternative sited were used. First was by Portugal next to rice and ended up with iron in the BFC. Second claimed the copper, thired the gold and marble. By this time capital was ready for the oracle and we got Construction for free before turn 77 and started to build cats. Barb archer threat showed up when we only had a warrior protecting each city and the whipped cats sucked without backup from warriors. BTW in this game I lost over 50% of my units with 95% winning probability. :cry:

By 300BC we had two more cities one to west and one toward Izzy. Izzy was going wonder crazy built SH and GWall and we were getting ready to attack on two fronts. Right after we move next to the border my second favorite lunatic dowed and two other crazies joined in. Moved back a few units to defend the iron city and Dowed on Izzy tool her fur(?) city north of her cap and the part of the second front that stayed around the dye city stayed fortified on a hill; forgotten. dohp..

The seafaring lunetic showed up with a stack of inferior units in front of the fur city and I made my first of many mistakes (...actually second since I fortified two phants and 2 vultures for about 12 turns doing nothing in front of poorly defended dye city..) The captured fur city had newly promoted but highly injured Vultures, cats and crossbows fortified. I should have taken my units out of the city and let them take the city. Anyways IBT I lost all but one cat. I pulled the cat back out and let the purple wonder take the city. A few turns later we took back that city and with the help of a cat the waiting phants and vultures took the dye city. Made peace for gold and techs with two of the crazies and went and captured the Spanish capital before suing for peace.

While all this was happening The iron city lost about 7 vultures and killed about 10 chariots and the madman's UU's. He send them in pairs. Also Jaoa and two others also jumped in later. We teched very fast in the bigining due to missed Mids and we were teching crazy only to realize the actual rate we could tech was only 10%.

I feel glad to be alive and OK considering I was at war with upto 6 civs at one point. I can tell you that the warring continued for over 1000 years with more aquisitions. Only 2 civs like us.
 
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