Boudica's commando army

[Tecibbar]

Boudica can pump out commando out of barrack fairly easily. In the railroad age, this would mean that her enemy would have most improvements pillaged first turn. Is she unstoppable?

 

[mirthadir]

no

Commando requires you to forgo several other attractive options (i.e. pinch) and means dedicating more generals to getting that final promo. Much more effective is spreading around the promos and just massing hoards of CRIII arty or tanks and some wickedly promoted air units.

Pillaging improvements is not that huge of a deal given the options you get with flight and proper use of aircraft carriers. At advanced flight you can just pillage with choppers.

 

[DaveMcW]

Barracks
West Point
Theocracy
Vassalage
Pentagon

... gives Boudica commando troops without generals.

Commando is a great alternative to paratroopers and bombing raids, but it is certainly not all-powerful.

The more important question is, why hasn't Boudica conquered her continent before railroads?

 

[Tecibbar]

The more important question is, why hasn't Boudica conquered her continent before railroads?

Maybe because Boudica is nice to her friends, unlike some B***.(Yes! I mean you, Katherine with a C)

no

Commando requires you to forgo several other attractive options (i.e. pinch) and means dedicating more generals to getting that final promo. Much more effective is spreading around the promos and just massing hoards of CRIII arty or tanks and some wickedly promoted air units.

Pillaging improvements is not that huge of a deal given the options you get with flight and proper use of aircraft carriers. At advanced flight you can just pillage with choppers.

commando is avaible way before flight, and as DaveMcW said, can be built in Heroic Epic city without GG. If you are backward in tech or doesn't have the force for aggressive warfare. Commando can really win the war of attrition.

 

[huerfanista]

commando is avaible way before flight, and as DaveMcW said, can be built in Heroic Epic city without GG. If you are backward in tech or doesn't have the force for aggressive warfare. Commando can really win the war of attrition.

I've been able to build commando rifles with Boudica in several games. They give you an awesome amount of flexibility - sort of like early horse archers on steroids. If you are fighting at parity or better, a stack of 7-8 will destroy your opponents lightly defended rear cities while you pound his frontline ones with you SODs.

 

[pi-r8]

When I play MP OCC I always fantasize about being able to send commando cavalry straight into their capital in just one turn. Never actually pulled it off though.

 

[mirthadir]

commando is avaible way before flight, and as DaveMcW said, can be built in Heroic Epic city without GG. If you are backward in tech or doesn't have the force for aggressive warfare. Commando can really win the war of attrition.

I'm not following how commando wins attrition. If the goal is direct engagement of enemy forces, as it is by definition for attrition, then the abilities of commando are not of huge concern. In order to win an attritionary war you must have a superior rate of of exchange, which commando does not give or superior repleshment rates; which commando makes only the most marginal contribution towards.

Commando is a maneuver promo if ever there was one. It allows you to hit where the enemy is weak and more quickly concentrate your forces where the enemy is weakest.

Also, dumping WP into your HE city is moronic. For the duration of the build time for WP, you are foregoing a major multiplier.

I've been able to build commando rifles with Boudica in several games. They give you an awesome amount of flexibility - sort of like early horse archers on steroids. If you are fighting at parity or better, a stack of 7-8 will destroy your opponents lightly defended rear cities while you pound his frontline ones with you SODs

Meh if you can field 4 promo rifles and have a SoD crushing the front gate you can just hit the rear with a naval shot unless something has gone horridly wrong. The problem I have with commando rifles as quasi mounted troops is that you have to forgo counter promos. The added effort required for one move more than mounted troops just isn't worth it, IMO.

It has its strength, but its overall utility is far from awe inspiring.

 

[Meatbuster]

I have never once utilized the commando promotion. Since the AI are not a fan of counterattacking my land by zigzagging past my SoD...

Humm... but that's a strategy that just might be something. Though if the defender has railroad, they can just as easily move counter units against the commandos. Like say, Grenadiers and siege against the stack of commandos.

edit: Of course, if this is all about the AI not killing off the commandos in favor of parking a huge number of units in the city my SoD is about to attack... no comment.

Also, dumping WP into your HE city is moronic.

But-but-but... I thought HE and WP were a match made in heaven... apparently it's very costly.

I want to know what people do with their HE and WP... the only things I can think about right now is HE by itself and just build units like no tomorrow, plus a city and:
1. Globe+WP
2. Ironworks+WP
3. Mil. Academy+National Park+WP (if it's not already the Oxford city)
4. Mil. Academy+Red Cross+WP

 

[Silu]

My favourite is to NOT build WP. I consider it a waste of hammers, especially if you would build it in the HE city (~double the amount of lost military while building it). I often end up skipping even IW (if going for domi/diplomation), since it's unlocked in a time where securing a domination victory is usually the easiest (rifle/cannon/cav/inf).

 

[bestsss]

West point is a really expensive wonder, so often I don't even consider it unless I am perfectly sure I can win wasting time on building it. It's ok to build the shiny (I'd consider it in HE if I have the continent and I have fleeted troops on invasion already [and no flight yet], else some other very high productive city) if I have the stone and possibly industrious. Cranking cr3 units is good but it takes one settled general for WP/Rax/Theo.
Ironworks is situational and to my surprise I sometimes combine it w/ the wall street if the city has shrine and I plan on corporations, so I can have wall street in reasonable time.

Globe+WP is almost no way unless you have Kremlin and lots of food (and or/gold?), possibly Redentor to switch to organized religion. Globe is used for drafting on a smaller size city. No way you can build WP there under normal circumstances (save burning great engineers or huge mining inc).

Btw, I don't remember building Red Cross, aside curiosity but that time you should have medics and production should cover the losses anyways.

btw if the enemy has railroads and they will have machine gunners not grenadiers.

 

[mirthadir]

WP is good with a number of setups.

MS + WP tends to make a good naval pump, particularly if you unlock it during the naval lull between when you finish off the wooden navy and before you get the oil/uranium based one.

WP + RC is great not just for making mini super medics (WIII/MI) but also for march units so you can roll more quickly.

IW + WP is a great match if you are committed to using IW for units for the vast majority of the game afterwards. Its a bit wasted if you intend to build 3GD, Pentagon, or any of the other late game wonders at IW.

WP + NP works only if you are massing engineers/AW priests. Even then it tends to be a bit weak.

Globe + WP is only really a good option if you are using the Globe as a slaving center. Drafting cuts the efficiency of WP massively and working while building WP cuts into your draft cycle.

Quite often WP just gets dumped into a high production city, say an AI cap with a captured mil acad. It really is not needed all that much and often it comes too late to be particularly useful.

Btw, I don't remember building Red Cross, aside curiosity but that time you should have medics and production should cover the losses anyways.

It is more a question of time, on the higher difficulties. Even with flight getting the new production to the fight means you still have to heal the SoDs. In order to more quickly snag territory, you want either good medics (WIII/M1 is very good and can be built easy in the RC and churned out with paras) or march. A RC draftee can take march just keep hitting until the war is over. With airpower (to a lesser extent spies/naval on some maps), march can double your conquest rate against some AIs.

 

[UWHabs]

I like late-game commando tanks. Had one game as Cyrus where my HE/WP city had a bunch settled GG, and I could pump out commando tanks out the door, 1/turn pretty much. I didn't use them as my main army (since CR3 ones tend to be better, but they were great for going around picking off whatever straggling units were around.

 

[JammerUno]

I don't get when the argument is about. It's very situational, but commando mech inf with either nukes or airsupport will rip apart an AI like nothing else, and it's very cost effective.

The WS/vassage/theo/WP/barracks combo isn't even needed. The combat line is attractive on it's own, and since you really only need half a dozen of them, it's pretty easy to just burn a GG on a combat stack to push the required number of units over 13 xp, then go to town with nukes.

 

[mirthadir]

I don't get when the argument is about. It's very situational, but commando mech inf with either nukes or airsupport will rip apart an AI like nothing else, and it's very cost effective.

The WS/vassage/theo/WP/barracks combo isn't even needed. The combat line is attractive on it's own, and since you really only need half a dozen of them, it's pretty easy to just burn a GG on a combat stack to push the required number of units over 13 xp, then go to town with nukes.

The OP asked if Bouddie was unstoppable with commando units, the answer to which is no. With railroads the limit of commando troops is 10 tiles, impressive but only 4 tiles further than paras, and 6 more than choppers; once you get flight/facism it is handily cheaper to nuke and paradrop. The commandos also have the problem that if the rail links get cut they can't take the city. Frankly, nukes with just about everything. Personally, I'm a fan of sending subs and transports to enemy cities, loading up some units using their logistical line and then declaring. Turn 0 I can take down a dozen cities and normally the next turn (perhaps the same turn) I can leapfrog in some paras and toast the entire civ.

Prior to flight, I'm just not that wild about commandos and other mass mobility options. MGs are annoying to take down and if I can build marine commandos, I can build CR tanks and just flatten outright. If I'm running around with commando infantry vs MGs I'm going to take some losses, if it is rifles vs MGs, forget it. Just about the same time that you can start getting good exchange rates out of commando troops, other options come into play to dramaticly enhance your native mobility.

Its an option, certainly, but I've rarely seen it be an effective one before the game enters mop up.

 

[JammerUno]

Upgrade your infantry to mechinf after you give them commando, that's a 20 tile radius with the added bonus of march thrown in there. Compared to paras, that's the difference between bordercities or core cities the first turn, which can be huge.

Besides, my example wasn't one of a long term strategy focussed on getting commando troops, it's a tactic requiring only some above average, combat-promoted infantry and a GG. It's not even limited to Boudica, two infantry with 7xp and a GG make for two commando mechinf for any aggressive leader. And combine those two with some nukes, and any 2 cities of the AI you need to get rid of, you can get rid of.

Also, choppers can't capture cities.

 

[URSExelcior]

Commando is more useful in MP than in SP.

 

[mirthadir]

Upgrade your infantry to mechinf after you give them commando, that's a 20 tile radius with the added bonus of march thrown in there. Compared to paras, that's the difference between bordercities or core cities the first turn, which can be huge.

Besides, my example wasn't one of a long term strategy focussed on getting commando troops, it's a tactic requiring only some above average, combat-promoted infantry and a GG. It's not even limited to Boudica, two infantry with 7xp and a GG make for two commando mechinf for any aggressive leader. And combine those two with some nukes, and any 2 cities of the AI you need to get rid of, you can get rid of.

Also, choppers can't capture cities.

Umm no. All units on rails are limited to 10 tiles, this includes inside your cultural borders. Tanks and Mech Inf can go no further than infantry off commando.

4 additional tiles is nice, but not as powerful as you might think. Skipping the border cities means you have no cultural expansion and your logistics don't improve. Hitting the interior with commandos, especially pre-flight, means you won't be getting reinforcements any time soon. Very few cities absolutely must be taken on turn 0 when you are using nukes (exceptions are most notably cultural powerhouses, enemy caps after spaceship launch, and UN/AP cities). Two nukes is normally sufficient to trash a city's output and SoD enough that you can wait a turn and use paratroopers. A gg is a lot of units late game if you turn him into an academy instead.

Commando is more useful in MP than in SP.

This I can buy. As the human player counterattacks properly and knows how to game air power themselves.

 

[popejubal]

It's not even limited to Boudica, two infantry with 7xp and a GG make for two commando mechinf for any aggressive leader. And combine those two with some nukes, and any 2 cities of the AI you need to get rid of, you can get rid of.

Using this as more than a gimmick kind of does require Boudica, though. Spending a Great General for two Mech Infantry might very well take two cities for you, but they're not likely to be able to hold those cities until your reinforcements arrive.

30+ Commando Mech Infantry on the other hand...