Broken alliance and evil alliance!

[Fier Canadien]

Evil are the news of the turn chat! The Russian have broken our alliance against the Babylonians and they have asked us to retreat our troops from their borders!

And in top of that, the Babylonians have forged an alliance with the Persians to destroy mighty Fanatika!

What do we do of this? The people of Fanatika must answer.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Fier Canadien
What do we do of this? The people of Fanatika must answer.

The people need to get their heads from out of their behinds and give up this foolish talk of democracy and peace and building! We are, have been and always will be a fighting society. Let us build up our armies and teach these countries a lesson they will never forget! :soldier:

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by donsig


The people need to get their heads from out of their behinds and give up this foolish talk of democracy and peace and building! We are, have been and always will be a fighting society. Let us build up our armies and teach these countries a lesson they will never forget! :soldier:

perhaps, it is not time for peace. I feared something like this would happen. Alright, they messed with the wrong people. My head has never been in that position.

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

A sad day in Fanatika indeed when I concur with Donsig .
But he is correct, Fanatika needs to stand tall before these events and demand respect from those that would invoke her wrath. If Fanatika is ever to have a period of growth she must first secure her place in the world. And in this game at least, it seems war is the only path to that end. Do not get me wrong, I still feel a time of growth is needed, but we must first survive these wars if ever we are to see the true splendors that Fanatika, as a culture, has to offer.

Ehecatl Atzin

 

[GenMarshall]

Well, this screws up our war plans. Soon the Persians would just be walking up to our shores

 

[Feodor Ardent]

Hmmmm . . . what has really happened is that the Russians finally figured out that we have been playing them for patsies for most of a century. So they had an attack of common sense and bailed out of the war.

We've got we wanted out of the deal and for a lot longer than we had any right to expect. Raise a public fuss to placate the yokels, but let's not do anything expensive just because Moscow stopped being our stooge.

Feodor
(Re-reading his leather and gold bound volume of Machiavelli.)

 

[Cheetah]

Then lets be on guard against the Russians and if they attacks us we'll take the Russian cities we need and get a peace.
Then conquer Babylon and move forces east to stall any eastern attackers. When we get Panzers we run over the rest...

 

[Shaitan]

As soon as our alliances against Babylon run out, make peace with them and take whatever they'll give us (or pay a bit if necessary). They will get a nice big rep hit for abandoning their alliance with Persia. In the meantime, restart the Phony Persian War to focus the world's attention away from us (and prevent Persia and/or Babylon from getting anybody else on our case. The exception being Russia. We shouldn't get any deals with Russia because this is our perfect opportunity to attack them and get the cities near our Forbidden Palace.

When life hands you lemons, make lemonade. This time we were handed lemons, a bag of sugar and a gallon of spring water. This could be a wonderful turn of events if we use it right.

 

[Falcon02]

I think peace with the Babs might be a good Idea, We've taken most of what we "need" from them, the Lux's and relatively good producing cities, though those Wonders would have been nice, they never became a major goal.

My concern now is Persia.... the only nation (I know of) who according to the Military Advisor in Civ III is stronger than us, we must be ready for a strong attack from them.

 

[Strider]

Don't forget the Russians might attack us also.... Cossacks and a military power bigger than our own. We need to send alittle gift to the russians keep them out of it for alittle while. Peace with the Bab's is a must now. We've taken what we need and taught them a lesson.

 

[I_am_sin7]

We need to direct our military.
We may be the second most powerfull nation of the map but not even we can fight too many at once.

 

[eyrei]

Alright, here is my proposal:

1. Sign a RoP and military alliance against Persia with the Greeks for ivory, 1gpt and our WM.

2. Sign a military alliance with France against Persia for our last source of ivory (we do not need all the luxuries, and this will save us 13 gpt...I would not be opposed to spending the gpt instead, however).

3. Give China dyes for 21 gpt. This should help to keep them from joining up with the Babs or Persians.

4. After 3 turns, end our alliance with the English against Babylon, and sign a peace treaty with the Babs. Then, give the English incense as a gift (we have plenty extra just sitting around).

5. Give the Iroquois incense as a gift to improve our relations. Again, we have plenty extra.

6. Give the Russians incense for 10 gpt. This should help to improve our relations and make it more unlikely that the Russians join an alliance against us.

7. Sell the Americans gems for 10gpt. After 3 turns, end our alliance with the Americans against the Babs.


These actions will accomplish a number of things. Our relations will be improved with nearly everyone. We will have alliances with the two most powerful civs after us and Persia, and they (the French and Greeks) will fight Persia for us. Meanwhile, we can spend these 20 turns preparing for a change of governments by building infrastructure. The Greeks, French and Persians will spend their resources fighting each other, which should allow us to catch up a bit technologically. Finally, we will actually increase our gpt income through these trades.

Comments?

 

[Strider]

I'd say to use the 13gpt.... The other alliances would still make it where we gain more gpt and I would like to keep the lux.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Originally posted by donsig


The people need to get their heads from out of their behinds and give up this foolish talk of democracy and peace and building! We are, have been and always will be a fighting society. Let us build up our armies and teach these countries a lesson they will never forget! :soldier:

What we don't want to do is start to act irrationally. Almost everyone has riflemen and we have cavalry. Even match....and to our detriment when we attack a city of 7 or above.

Until we get Panzers, we are in a holding pattern militarily(or at least we should be). May as well spend some peaceful time to better readying ourselves for Panzers by giving our cities the goods they need to grow into Panzer building entities. How will we pay for upgrades without Banks or Wall Street? How will we get the drop on our enemies if we are the last ones to Motorized Transportation?

Little known fact, but we are a scientific civ as well, although you would never know it. We can be competitive in the tech race, but only by adding the right improvements! And only by entering the right government. Democracy will allow our workers to build mines 50% faster, will allow more gold to the treasury, and is the only way for us to get back in the tech race.

Isn't everyone tired of giving away the farm everytime we need a tech? Or worse not even being allowed the chance for it, as is the current case with Steam Power? I know I am. And that's exactly what we will have to do for the remainder of the game if we don't switch to Democracy now. Imagine other civs playing keep-away with the tech that gives us Panzers. That's where we're headed, and worse.

But it doesn't have to be this way. The Phony Persian War gives us the chance to pursue Democracy now, and I think we should consider it strongly. A strong focused time of "peace" could lead to our finest hour late in the Industrial Age. Let's take this path.

 

[donsig]

If we sell anything to Russia then we will take a rep hit should we decide it is an oppurtune time to flesh out the area around our FP. Rather than repeat the Phony Persian war and the accompanying entanglements, why do we sell our luxuries to our friends (not Russia) at a fair price (even a little on the cheap side) in order to keep their friendship. We can use the income to upgrade our muskets and funnel them east and south. We can then get a proper military build-up going and dare Xerxes to show his face in our lands. I for one do not wish to return to the days of phony wars and alliances that only make Persia stronger!

If we are to make alliances let's make useful ones against Babylon and or Russia. We must keep fighting in order to have a chance at generating leaders!

Perhaps we should look into a strategic MPP or two in order to help keep our friends

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by donsig
If we sell anything to Russia then we will take a rep hit should we decide it is an oppurtune time to flesh out the area around our FP. Rather than repeat the Phony Persian war and the accompanying entanglements, why do we sell our luxuries to our friends (not Russia) at a fair price (even a little on the cheap side) in order to keep their friendship. We can use the income to upgrade our muskets and funnel them east and south. We can then get a proper military build-up going and dare Xerxes to show his face in our lands. I for one do not wish to return to the days of phony wars and alliances that only make Persia stronger!

If we are to make alliances let's make useful ones against Babylon and or Russia. We must keep fighting in order to have a chance at generating leaders!

Perhaps we should look into a strategic MPP or two in order to help keep our friends

You talk about taking a rep hit just for taking a lux? We take a rep hit everytime someone declares war on us. The Bab's will now never like us. Persia already hates us. Russia is coming close. And we've been wanting to attack the American's forever.

We have the terrority we need.... The only bonus we can get out of war now is to destroy the other Civ's military units, but they also kill ares. All we are doing with war now is weakening ourselves.

 

[Eklektikos]

Originally posted by eyrei
Alright, here is my proposal:

1. Sign a RoP and military alliance against Persia with the Greeks for ivory, 1gpt and our WM.

2. Sign a military alliance with France against Persia for our last source of ivory (we do not need all the luxuries, and this will save us 13 gpt...I would not be opposed to spending the gpt instead, however).

3. Give China dyes for 21 gpt. This should help to keep them from joining up with the Babs or Persians.

4. After 3 turns, end our alliance with the English against Babylon, and sign a peace treaty with the Babs. Then, give the English incense as a gift (we have plenty extra just sitting around).

5. Give the Iroquois incense as a gift to improve our relations. Again, we have plenty extra.

6. Give the Russians incense for 10 gpt. This should help to improve our relations and make it more unlikely that the Russians join an alliance against us.

7. Sell the Americans gems for 10gpt. After 3 turns, end our alliance with the Americans against the Babs.


These actions will accomplish a number of things. Our relations will be improved with nearly everyone. We will have alliances with the two most powerful civs after us and Persia, and they (the French and Greeks) will fight Persia for us. Meanwhile, we can spend these 20 turns preparing for a change of governments by building infrastructure. The Greeks, French and Persians will spend their resources fighting each other, which should allow us to catch up a bit technologically. Finally, we will actually increase our gpt income through these trades.

Comments?

I like it all, with exception of the part involving Russia. Rather than locking ourselves into a 20 turn trade agreement with them I think we should be preparing to "liberate" their cities near our FP as soon as possible.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi

What we don't want to do is start to act irrationally. Almost everyone has riflemen and we have cavalry. Even match....and to our detriment when we attack a city of 7 or above...

Isn't everyone tired of giving away the farm everytime we need a tech? Or worse not even being allowed the chance for it, as is the current case with Steam Power? I know I am. And that's exactly what we will have to do for the remainder of the game if we don't switch to Democracy now. Imagine other civs playing keep-away with the tech that gives us Panzers. That's where we're headed, and worse...

But it doesn't have to be this way. The Phony Persian War gives us the chance to pursue Democracy now, and I think we should consider it strongly. A strong focused time of "peace" could lead to our finest hour late in the Industrial Age. Let's take this path.

First of all, the cavalry / rifleman match-up is only even if the opposing numbers are even. Massed cavalry can out-gun rifles even in larger cities. But we con't have to take those large Babylonian cities. We can fight them out in the open - we just need to keep fighting in order to get a leader.

Second, if we'd get our rear-ends in gear and build a proper military (masses of cavalry and some cannons to boot) we could take on some hi tech powers and force them to give us their secrets. We need not pay them for techs. Also, if we'd spend some of that gold of our upgrading our obsolete units we'd be stronger in the eyes of the world and fewer would seek war with us, allowing us to pick the fights we want.

Third, even phony wars bring war weariness in democracy.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

eyrei...

Some other things I've found:

English

We can renegotiate peace to have them join the war and they will give us 15g as well.

France

Let's give them the 13gpt and keep our sole source of Ivory.

America

We can add an alliance against the Persians to the 10gpt deal.


I would like to keep all of our luxuries for now on the off chance that Fanatikans will ignore the rabble-rousing and consider the switch to Democracy. Losing that luxury would only make it a tougher sell.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by donsig


First of all, the cavalry / rifleman match-up is only even if the opposing numbers are even. Massed cavalry can out-gun rifles even in larger cities. But we con't have to take those large Babylonian cities. We can fight them out in the open - we just need to keep fighting in order to get a leader.

Second, if we'd get our rear-ends in gear and build a proper military (masses of cavalry and some cannons to boot) we could take on some hi tech powers and force them to give us their secrets. We need not pay them for techs. Also, if we'd spend some of that gold of our upgrading our obsolete units we'd be stronger in the eyes of the world and fewer would seek war with us, allowing us to pick the fights we want.

Third, even phony wars bring war weariness in democracy.

First, the more we fight the more units we lose. We have no railroads. It'll cost us to hold a war in there terrority for long.

Second, If we get are rear-ends in move and build a proper infastucture then we could have panzers before anyone else has tanks. Are cities can produce units fast enough. Get them to start cranking out panzers and we could have a good 6 in 3-5 turns. Close to 20 in just 10 turns.

Third, phony wars are even costly in monarchy. If we don't improve our relations with the russians a military alliance against us might be staring us in the face.