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BTS-Beta 4

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Dianthus, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. Dianthus

    Dianthus Small but hardy

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,814
    Location:
    Woking, UK
    While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

    [size=+1](*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
    [/size]​

    Settings:
    • Victory Condition: Space Race (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
    • Difficulty: Settler
    • Starting Era: Ancient
    • Map Size: Duel
    • Map Type: Any
    • Speed: Quick
    • Civ: Any
    • Opponents: Any
    • Version: 3.03.001
    • Date: 27th September to 10th October 2007
    The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
     
  2. Shoot the Moon

    Shoot the Moon Playing World in Conflict

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    708
    Wow, a repeat of G-Minor 23. Yuck.

    On a totally unrelated note, G-minor 25 and 26 seem to have switched in the menu on the HoF website. It seems kinda weird to go 23, 24, 26, 25, 27
     
  3. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    22,877
    Location:
    Melbourne, AUS Reputation:131^(9/2)
    It would be a good way to see how comparable BtS and Warnilla are.
     
  4. Dianthus

    Dianthus Small but hardy

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,814
    Location:
    Woking, UK
    I was wondering how long until that was spotted :mischief:.



    OK, fixed. The gauntlets are ordered by finish date and 25/26 finished at the same time, to the second. I just moved 26 to 1 second later...
     
  5. BLubmuz

    BLubmuz HoF Quattromaster

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    6,160
    Location:
    Vicenza, Italy
    Since i prolly solved my game conflict problems, i can try this.
    Prolly Fred on great plains is the best combo, since the labs are too far in BTS to have benefits from Peter in this kind of map.

    The big issue in a settler duel map is the risk to catch the dom. limit.
    The nice thing in BTS is that you can lack aluminum, since you can build Aluminum co.
    Useless to say, MM as AI.
     
  6. Dracandross

    Dracandross Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    290
    Location:
    Finland
    Tried casual play eded up 1700 ad or so with 6-7 cities. Wonder how I got 1300 ad with warlords casually.

    -Dracandross
     
  7. killercane

    killercane Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,278
    Location:
    TN
    It seems there is a bug, but not gamebreaking. If you eliminate a civ with no city razing on before building your first city, you get no palace (along with horrible loss of commerce/maintenance). In previous versions I am pretty sure you received the free palace in the AI capital.
     
  8. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,062
    Location:
    Gone fishing for the summer
    that's a funny bug that you ran into :) Did you rush a three civ duel map? I'll have to try that sometime as well...
     
  9. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    930
    OK, I submitted 1550AD as Peter (no cottages). I popped 1 Settler and rushed one AI capital with 3 Warriors.

    I am new to BtS, so I have to work out the tech path. The Russian UB is not that far, go SM -> Biology -> Physics -> Electricity -> Refrigeration -> Superconductor. Most of the techs can be lightbulbed, and there is Liberalism for the last one.
     
  10. killercane

    killercane Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
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    3,278
    Location:
    TN
    Well I wouldnt call walking into a nearby undefended capital rushing :).
     
  11. IamJohn

    IamJohn (was)?

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    674
    Location:
    Out there, somewhere, anywhere...
    I keep on winning the game with the wrong victory! It's quite funny in an ironic sort of way... :lol: First time was religious when I accidentally voted instead of abstaining when I thought I was voting for being able to propose propositions, instead of the religious victory it really was, and the latest I went over the domination limit by conquering too much of the ai accidentally. I have one space victory, but it's a pretty bad date for the difficulty level because I wasn't aggressive enough.
     
  12. HolyHandGrenade

    HolyHandGrenade Holy Pin

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    607
    As Mansa I got a 1650 victory on Great_Plains with 5 cities (4 founded, 1 captured). I can give some more details if some1 is interested
     
  13. Dracandross

    Dracandross Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    290
    Location:
    Finland
    1590 now (currently 3rd with 1640), Ive still gotta expand faster. Using liz. I think theres at least 200 years to be shaved off with decent start and aggressive play. 4th or 5th try next. If I get 50 years per try off it takes about 4 more to go...

    Edit: Id like to know whats leading (peter with gplains?) as this is really affecting how things compare in bts and wl/van but surely 800ad seems outta reach?

    -Dracandross
     
  14. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    930
    Well, I just submitted 1490 AD, as Peter on Great Plains.
     
  15. Peluin

    Peluin Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Sherman Oaks, CA
    Nice time :cool: gives me something to do between classes. I'm using Liz too. I tried Huayna for a few games but decided building wonders for GPP was a waste of time after all.

    Just to make public my embarassment, in one game I managed to lose religiously to Mansa! I thought you needed at least three players to vote for victory (forget where I heard that...), but it turns out that is most certainly not the case. Now I make sure to build the AP each game :( waste of hammers!
     
  16. Drool

    Drool Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    88
    Location:
    New Zealand
    For some reason, I always find spacerace hard to do fast. I think I tech fast and build quite fast but still end up finishing in 1900's. Can someone please give me some tips to get earlier finishes.
     
  17. HolyHandGrenade

    HolyHandGrenade Holy Pin

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    607
    What are your principal guidelines? One big science city? What are you beelining for? Are you choosing fixed opponents? When do you switch civics? Which wonders are you going for?

    So much questions but currently I don't see a chance for me to get a better finishing date than 1650. And this gauntlet can be played really fast to try several strategies to improve game playing.

    Thanks for your answer :)
     
  18. Dracandross

    Dracandross Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    290
    Location:
    Finland
    Now 1540 eliz highlands. Had somewhat 9 cities or so. Shoulda went for warring and get more but I seemed to be busy all the time so I couldnt go for free cities (?). I cant understand how you can go so fast on gplains and still pull all pieces out too in time. I seem to finish research before all pieces are even close done.

    -Dracandross
     
  19. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
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    Well, here is what I do. I play either Peter or Gandhi on GPlains. I pick 2 opponents, usually Fred and Liz, but I have nothing special in mind, just some non-aggressive leaders.

    Regenerate the map until I have a starting location in the woods with at least two special food resources and plenty of forests. Furs are good, too, for happiness and some early commerce.

    Queue 3 Warriors while working a tile with max hammers (like 1F2H or 3H.) Research Pottery -> Writing -> Alphabet. Once 3 Warriors are ready, capture the closest AI capital. Set both cities to build Workers, unless I have popped one from a goody hut, then send it to the capital, and set the capital to build Granary.

    By this time Alpha is ready, so trade for whatever I can from the second AI. Hopefully they have BW, otherwise, spend 2 turns on researching it myself, and switch to Slavery immediately. So, for the first two or three cities the build order is Worker -> Granary -> Warrior -> Library.

    Granaries are whipped at size 2 (for Peter) or 4 (for Gandhi.) Then max food for fastest growth until size 6, switch to Settler, wait a turn, whip for 3 pop, apply overflow to a Worker, rinse, repeat until I have at least 4 good cities with decent food, so I can whip Libraries, and also hook up Stone for Pyramids if there is one in sight, for which I may need 5-th or 6-th city. Also, I build an army of Workers, like 2-4 per city.

    I try to avoid chopping forests in the capital's fat cross, I only chop if absolutely necessary to chain irrigate farms.

    Meanwhile tech to Col->Monotheism->CS. Switch to Bureaucracy, Caste System, and Org. Rel. Adopt a state religion as well and spread it to all the cities. Now run max scientists instead of working unimproved tiles in every city. Some of them may not yet finish a Library, but that's fine, they can keep building working mines.

    Start Pyramids in the capital (no Great Library in this case), if I don't have Stone. If I do, start it in the second best production city, research Aesthetics->Literature, and start GL in the capital. If no stone, both techs and the GL can be skipped.

    Meanwhile use GSs to bulb (after building the Academy in the capital) Philosophy and Education (possibly, Paper, too.), and research Calendar->Optics->Astronomy myself. Sometimes I use Oracle for Astronomy.

    Once Education is ready, start to build at least 4 Universities immediately. Max hammers rather than specialists for that. After Pyramids is complete, switch to Representation and Pacifism. Then build Oxford, which in my case is usually complete around 1AD.

    At that point I usually build that Mausoleum (for +50% Golden Age.)

    After Astronomy research all the way up to Chemistry, and, if my best non-capital production city is ready, Steel for Ironworks. Then SM -> Biology. Of course, SM can be bulbed with a GS. Likewise, Physics. The general rule of bulbing: if you can bulb something you need shortly, bulb it. Otherwise, settle as SS.

    After SM, I send all my Workers to build Forest Preserves around the Capital, and after Biology, I set the capital to build that National Park. 6-10 free specialists in the Oxford city are great.

    After that I build the Palace in the Ironworks city.

    Now research Superconductor for labs and Rocketry for Apollo. Grab Nationalism along the way for Tadj. I like to trigger a Golden Age while building Apollo.

    Then Steam Power (for Coal) -> Industrialism. No Aluminum, spend a GS on Aluminum Corp, then spread it to all the production centers. After Assembly Line, all my cities are usually building something, while the Capital generates science.

    Now Composites for Casings, and then everything else. 3-4 Golden Ages non-stop also help.
     
  20. HolyHandGrenade

    HolyHandGrenade Holy Pin

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    607
    First of all, thank you very much for this detailed answer :goodjob:

    But as you may assume I have some more questions/comments :D

    I tried to delay this 1st (and only) war til I have Alphabet and traded with my victim the turn before attacking. Is this delay too long?

    Hmm, Peter has half-production granaries I assume

    So as soon as you start to work unimproved tiles you run them as scientists?

    I normally use Oracle for Education never thought on lightbulbing with GS. Thanks for this hint :)

    Yeah this wonder is nice :cool:

    What is the reason for the palace switch? No idea here!

    Ahh - this is the next thing I missed in my games. I always built all parts without alu.

    Some more questions:
    - How can you afford 100% science the whole game? With only 1 trading partner I never achieve this.
    - Are you going to squeeze each sciene point out of your science city, includung monastries?
    - Are you improving all other cities for production and built "research" or are you cottage spamming?

    Thanks HHG
     

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