Bts easier than Warlords?

[Mack_Jagger]

Sorry if this is an old subject but my ego just have to know. From now and then I see brief sentences here on the boards that this and that is easier on Bts compared to Warloads, but that other things have become harder. But generally, have the game gotten easier in Bts? A couple of months ago I posted a series of saves here to get help with my game. I was pursuing my first win on Monarch, and eventually I got it. I havn't been playing for a while but picked up Bts last months and guess what? I pretty much wreck the AI on Monarch now. It would be great to hear that I now is comfortable on Monarch but I guess it's not quite like that.

Worth saying is also that I'm playing on my laptop because my regular computer ha crashed . That meens I'm stuck on small maps, which I never played befor when I went for standard or large maps. Of course it's much easier to get a firm grip of the game through early war when the opponents is fewer. Well... yeah that's pretty much what I wanted to ask.

 

[shyuhe]

The AI handicaps have been brought down. The AI is smarter but isn't equipped with rocket engines any more. If you're above noble, you may find the game easier in bts compared to warlords. My guess is that the game is at least 1/2 a difficulty level easier.

 

[Murky]

It seems like it's a lot easier to get a cultural victory in BTS. It used to be a challenge to get enough cities producing enough culture. Now there's an abundance of it. It does seem like the Space Ship win takes longer.

 

[madscientist]

I was a steady Prince level player on Warloards and Now I am a steady Monarch level player in BTS.

If patched correctly the BTS AI techs better than without patches.

My feeling is that BTS AI is a little easier but plays a better all arround game instead of targeting a spacerace win. They go after cultura wins, UN diplomatic wins, and will proceed with a domination win if in teh cards.

 

[LingLinsRevenge]

You guys make me feel bad -- I think the game play is much harder in BTS
In Warlord a successful rush of one Civ and capture of a second Capital early in the game was enough to secure victory --

In BTS -- that is not enough -- the AI seems to be much better in the mid game (or I am much worse) -- In any case, the game seems to be in doubt much longer

<resuming lurker status>

 

[DarkSchneider]

I would say overall it's easier. Getting a tech advantage in the Industrial age is much more of an advantage than it was before. The AI bonuses are much less than they were before, and while the AI is a little smarter, it's not enough to cover the losses.

 

[Dirk1302]

Definitely easier 1/2-3/4 level i guess.

 

[Ace of Gold]

You guys make me feel bad -- I think the game play is much harder in BTS
In Warlord a successful rush of one Civ and capture of a second Capital early in the game was enough to secure victory --

In BTS -- that is not enough -- the AI seems to be much better in the mid game (or I am much worse) -- In any case, the game seems to be in doubt much longer

<resuming lurker status>

i agree it is harder for some reason. the AI is more strategic and technological and builds a bigger army

 

[Nkot]

It definitely has a better military strategy than before, thus explaining many aggressive player's observations. Player strategy's that depended on early rushes are now a little harder to execute and often with less sucess. Also, I feel that war is just generally more expensive in BTS. It seems that War Weariness accumulates faster, and you need to build more units to compensate for the AI building more units.

However, I think the majority of players play a more balanced game and don't necessarily have the "early war." Since the AI has less advantages to make up for their once, dismal defences, it tech's a little slower, which is why I think players find it a little easier. Also, I think the BTS AI priortizes certain annoying techs less now, such as Feudalism.

Personally, I do find it to be easier than Warlords, in the sense that it is much less war-oriented. Even on Emperor, if I get a good stake of land, I probably won't have a war until 1000 AD, mantaining a tech lead the whole way. In fact, in almost all my games (playing on Emperor right now) I'm the first to research Liberalism.

 

[Gliese 581]

I don't know if it's gotten easier or if I've become better from reading alot of strategy etc online, but I've moved up a level. Probably a combination..

 

[CivCorpse]

It depends on the settings in a lot of cases as well as style of play. I find that playing with aggresive AI makes the game much more difficult as you advance in levels. Since the Ai seems to recieve a discount on unit maint costs. Since you must maintain a very large military just for defensive purposes this slows your research rate down and the ai bonuses to research make it even worse. Plus with many more units involved the ai bonuses to production are much more pronounced.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

On aggressive AI (the REAL AI, in my completely subjective but very firm opinion), BTS is more difficult than warlords up to the immortal level. On deity there's no fair comparison, because having the extra settler removed on deity difficulty BTS takes away all the steam that the warlords version has. It's not even the massive discounts on civic upkeep or war wariness anymore.

It's the extra settler. I promise you it's the settler.

If you want to test this, go into the worldbuilder and remove the extra settler, and play your game in warlords. Then set aggressive AI, deity, BTS. BTS will win supreme.

 

[Dirk1302]

It definitely has a better military strategy than before, thus explaining many aggressive player's observations. Player strategy's that depended on early rushes are now a little harder to execute and often with less sucess. Also, I feel that war is just generally more expensive in BTS. It seems that War Weariness accumulates faster, and you need to build more units to compensate for the AI building more units.

However, I think the majority of players play a more balanced game and don't necessarily have the "early war." Since the AI has less advantages to make up for their once, dismal defences, it tech's a little slower, which is why I think players find it a little easier. Also, I think the BTS AI priortizes certain annoying techs less now, such as Feudalism.

Personally, I do find it to be easier than Warlords, in the sense that it is much less war-oriented. Even on Emperor, if I get a good stake of land, I probably won't have a war until 1000 AD, mantaining a tech lead the whole way. In fact, in almost all my games (playing on Emperor right now) I'm the first to research Liberalism.

I agree, i think the Ai's tech more than one level slower than they used to in Warlords, On the other hand an early rush isn't as attractive as it used to be (you'll face 6+ archers in the second city you'll attack), also you have to build more units anyway to fend off an AI attack. Then again winning lib and then tech to rifles building globe and drafting (as indicated by Snaaty) is so strong that i think that the whole game is at least 1/2 level easier.

@Sylvanlewellyn, i've never played agressive Ai's or Deity (played only immortal on BTS sofar) so i can't really comment on that, maybe aggressive AI on slows the human player down so much that the slower Ai teching is compensated.

 

[Coase]

Considering the AI now attacks you with little regard to 1) its chances of success; 2) your level of achievement; and 3) any reason whatsoever, I'd say it's much harder. Culture is easier to produce now, of course, at least up until that point when the AI crushes you for not spending every single point of production on military production.

 

[Civfan333]

I think BTS will be harder (still haven't gotten it since Best Buy was sold out and Gamestop didn't have it. )

 

[madscientist]

OK, some observations on BTS AI . These include all the patches

1) They will go for a cultural Victory. Sometimes this requires a daring amphibious assault and razing a coastal city to preserve your domination or Space win.
2) The AI will pursue a domination or diplomatic win if close to it.
3) The AI techs a bit slower, but not nearly as bad as the pre-patch BTS.
4) The AI does not prioritize rifling anymore, making a beeline towards rifling a valid route to victory. If you live long enough.
5) Espionage, the AP, and corps add another level of complexity to a very complicated game.
6) The agressive AI is a misguided missle. If you are the target you are in trouble, for most of the game. If the missle targets another AI(s) it can be a fairly easy game.
7) The AI builds more units, period.
8) The AI build multiple units and brings them in stacks and defends cities with them.
9) Tha AI will attempt amphibious assaults, especially weekly defended coastal cities and those with wonders. This means you cannot have all the troops at the front and 1 token defender in core coastal cities.
10) The AI dogpiles more. If AI A attacks you, they have a better chance of bringing B and maybe C.

So overall, the AI techs slower which is balanced out by a better play style. IMHO.

 

[The Rook]

I personally find BTS to be somewhat tougher than Warlords, and I think this is due to the AI's slower expansion rate. In Warlords (Emperor and above), the AI expanded so quickly, early warfare was made very effective. By the time I got 3 cities online, there would be several AI cities on my border, it was so simple to steamroller through them within a few turns, and gain a winning space advantage. These days, unless the AI's capital is right on my doorstep, I find it easier to expand peacefully in the early game. Peaceful expansion seems to suit the AI better though, due to its ludicrous production bonuses, whereas in war it is always going to be stupid in comparison to a human player.

 

[Napalm102]

I find military wins to be harder in bts. I also lost a game or two because I habitually neglected to check win conditions assuming AI will go for space race, and failed to see an AI going for cultural win. But most of the early rush strategies work. Great wall became a very important wonder for me, because of the great spy and the amount of early tech stealing.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

I play on the same level (Emperor) as I did with warlords. I think BTS is slightly easier in that it opens up more options to the player and doesn't force you to play the same game each time. To me that means playing different styles for each game and not being quite so panicked about things. So I find Emperor slightly easier and more enjoyable but I can't see myself wanting to go up to Immortal.

The AIs don't expand as quickly which is great because it doesn't force you into early war every time. The change makes more playstyles viable.

The AIs don't necessarily tech as quickly at the start either - which leaves nearby AIs vulnerable to you gaining a military tech lead. However once the AIs get to renaissance, watch out - their tech rate accelerates very quickly.

The AIs don't all follow the same tech paths and they will pursue different victory conditions. Augustus will be building his empire claiming vassals on the other continent while Ramses turtles for a culture victory spreading 5 religions to every city. It makes the game much more fun - you really need to try and work out what every AI is going to do and be prepared to deal with the unexpected.

 

[KMadCandy]

On aggressive AI (the REAL AI, in my completely subjective but very firm opinion), BTS is more difficult than warlords up to the immortal level. On deity there's no fair comparison, because having the extra settler removed on deity difficulty BTS takes away all the steam that the warlords version has. It's not even the massive discounts on civic upkeep or war wariness anymore.

It's the extra settler. I promise you it's the settler.

If you want to test this, go into the worldbuilder and remove the extra settler, and play your game in warlords. Then set aggressive AI, deity, BTS. BTS will win supreme.

the extra settler for the AI on deity is totally huge. the only way i ever try deity* is OCC since it negates that advantage in a big way (i don't need to participate in the landgrab). but their extra settler hasn't been removed in BtS so i don't understand what you mean?

*no, of course i don't expect to win those games . but it's fun to see how early i can predict who'll beat me and how this time, and OCC losses are quick *giggle*.