[BtS] Merged Mod

[Ninja2]

Oh, the irony! I.... don't know what to tell you!

I've just searched for posts made by me containing the word 'airship' or 'airships'. There are an astounding total of 4 posts, of which 3 are in this thread regarding new releases of Merged Mod. And 2 of those release posts state that Oil is NOT a requirement to build airships (oh, and if you search after 5 June 2008, midnight CET, there'll be one more post in that count). I know you're going to ask what they run on... and I'm going to say that they're windpowered this time.

So, there is ONE whole post left made by me on this issue, and that is a post in your thread. Read it, and witness my hatred of all winged things!

I think you must confuse me with Kilroywashere, that guy posted a lot more about airships than I ever will.

Now, I most certainly do remember a very long debate with you about AA. But that had absolutely nothing to do with airships, as I suspect you're very well aware of. I'm also still not satisfied with the AA ground unit that I currently have in my mod, and I have not given up on changing it. But for now it'll do, there are other issues with higher priority. If you had read the bottom part of the first post in this thread at the 0.6 release time, you'll see that I'm also considering adding a Ground Attack plane, to dish out even more death and destruction from the skies. So I am not a flyboy hater, I guess I just have a different perspective on the balance between air power and the counters thereof.

I am actually a little honored that you would go to the lengths that you have to gift me this unit. But I think your efforts would have been more appropriately directed at someone else - no offense.

Finally, you ask me why I am considering adding it to my mod. Allow me to use your own words:

If I add it, I think people would like it, if I didn't, nobody would miss it.

 

[Wolfshanze]

The whole conversation does revolve around the AA issue (of which we had considerable discussions)... to summarize, without bringing it all up again, I said "you don't need ground AA if you have fighters, the natural counter"... in one way or another, you were saying something to the effect of "I either don't want to build fighters, or can't build fighters, so I need AA".

Well, MERRY CHRISTMAS NINJA!

Now you can have your cake and eat it too... you don't need to build fighters, just invent flight, and you get a free unit!

In all seriousness though... is there any reason why you would EXCLUDE the Early Flyer from your mod? Once again, I point out the Merged Mod is supposed to be based on the Wolfshanze Mod... the artwork, XML and everything is already set into place... I can see no logical reason to say that the Early Flyer ruins the game in any way, shape or form... so why for two seconds would you consider NOT putting it in the game?

Is it absolutely necessary for gameplay? Heck no... but it's already there, harms no-one and is a cool bonus (and it's built special, just for Ninjas).

I was just surprised that you stated "the jury was out" on the plane and you were debating to put it in or not... I simply see no reason why you wouldn't, that's all. It's my gift to you Ninja! Take it!

 

[ScottyB]

The FPKs were changed significantly between v2.69 and v2.71, so the current version of the Merged Mod which was designed for v2.69 should definitely be using the v2.69 FPK file, not the v2.71 FPK.

Of course once Ninja updates the Merged Mod, then the new v2.71 FPK should be used.

Yes, I redownloaded your 2.69 Mod and put the FPK file in the merged mod folder. It seems to be working OK but I have a couple of great people that I can't do anything with. Plus the game slows down whenever it is their turn to move. I am hoping to make another so I can use all of them for a golden age. Also do the AA guns move? I built a couple in my military city and tried to move them but that won't go anywhere.

Scott

 

[Ninja2]

The AA guns in 0.6 do not move. This is intentional, as they're supposed to represent fixed AA fortifications. They are not working as intended, but I'm working on fixing that. Basically, I want them to damage incoming attacks, not turn them back.

By the way, I don't have any issues with Great People. I, on the other hand, have issues with wonder movies showing up as garbage! I blame my crappy laptop, as I don't have this problem on my desktop (which I never use anymore).

 

[Ninja2]

I've had a bit of a breakthrough! The AA unit now works exactly like I want it to! It has a chance to intercept incoming bombers (currently a 25% base) and damage them, but it won't turn the entire attack away. This means that the bombing run is not aborted, and the bombers will complete their mission... but they may take losses, if the AA manages to intercept. This is a lot more realistic than how regular BTS worked.

This new feature will be included in the next release, which also includes Bhruics new patch, update of all Wolfshanzes' stuff, plus more...

 

[Wolfshanze]

I've had a bit of a breakthrough! The AA unit now works exactly like I want it to! It has a chance to intercept incoming bombers (currently a 25% base) and damage them, but it won't turn the entire attack away. This means that the bombing run is not aborted, and the bombers will complete their mission... but they may take losses, if the AA manages to intercept. This is a lot more realistic than how regular BTS worked.

This new feature will be included in the next release, which also includes Bhruics new patch, update of all Wolfshanzes' stuff, plus more...

Sounds good Ninja... now even I can agree with that approach!

What kind of changes are necessary to make it work... XML, Python, GameCore.DLL or a combination of two or more? I'm very curious.

 

[ScottyB]

Hello all, I was having fun with the mod but haven't had a chance to complete a game beacause of the CTD. Are there any patchs or newer versions of this mod? I have been playing on a huge world as the US. The latest crash comes in 1904 when I am about to discover Steam Power. I can't remember what caused the other crash, perhaps I can load that game again and see what causes it. Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

Scott

 

[Ninja2]

Sounds good Ninja... now even I can agree with that approach!

What kind of changes are necessary to make it work... XML, Python, GameCore.DLL or a combination of two or more? I'm very curious.

Glad you aprove! For the unit itself, you know the routine. The code itself is strictly a dll change, I'm afraid. The new code alters aerial combat, so even regular interceptions by fighters don't turn the whole bombing raid back. This also means that I probably need to readjust intercept and evasion levels for most air units, to try and maintain the balance. I haven't figured out how the exact damage to attacking planes is calculated, so I need to study the code a little more to get a realistic effect. It might even be worth it to create separate "generations" of planes, just like you did with ships, in order to give bonuses to newer planes fighting older ones.

 

[Ninja2]

Hello all, I was having fun with the mod but haven't had a chance to complete a game beacause of the CTD. Are there any patchs or newer versions of this mod? I have been playing on a huge world as the US. The latest crash comes in 1904 when I am about to discover Steam Power. I can't remember what caused the other crash, perhaps I can load that game again and see what causes it. Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

Scott

I'm sad to hear that you have problems. I have a new dll in the works, but it's not quite ready for release. However, I have a "beta" version of it that you're welcome to try. It includes Bhruics latest patch (1.21), and it uses a different routine for compiling, which means that's it's closer in terms of kilobytes to the original 3.13 dll. I don't know if any of these alterations mean anything to prevent CTD's, but you're welcome to try it out and report back!

Here's the file to download.

 

[Wolfshanze]

It might even be worth it to create separate "generations" of planes, just like you did with ships, in order to give bonuses to newer planes fighting older ones.

Hmmm... might be something to consider...

The biggest thing that bothers me about the differant "ages" of aircraft is the interception rates... by default, the Biplanes have a 50% Interception (though I just raised it to 60%... too many airships getting through), the WWII fighters have 100%... the Jets??? I don't know... what's above 100%?

What would one name the air categories though? It was interesting enough coming-up with the names for ship ages!

There should be something that makes it harder for WWI to intercept WWII aircraft, and harder for WWII aircraft to intercept jets... I haven't really dug that deep into the air war though... I mostly focused on fixing the naval aspect (as you well know).

 

[Ninja2]

I think there's something in the code which subtracts evasionprobability from interception, and then it goes from there. But I'm not sure, this is another formula I need to investigate.

I haven't really thought about names yet...

 

[Berenthor]

I also always really liked a little diversity in jet fighters. I am actually working on three extra unitclasses of fighters in Wolfshanze's mod to play with. But finding all civ specific skins and which aircraft fit best for each civ is still a little work. After that I still have to test them. I decided for now to keep the intercept % for all jet fighters at 100% and first test it like this. I think the intercept-concept was changed for BtS in regard to civ4 and warlords if I remember correctly, but I am not sure. The tree of aircraft looks like this in my version:

fighter --> jet fighter --> multirole fighter (original jet fighter stats) --> advanced fighter
light bomber --> attack fighter -- multirole fighter (original jet fighter stats) --> advanced fighter

Just my 50 cents

 

[Ninja2]

On interception:

Every time the game checks for an interception, it's basically two rolls of a 100 sided dice. The first roll checks to see if the target can evade interception. If the roll is greater than or equal to the unit's evasionprobability from the XML, the target failed to evade. The evasion probability is not currently modified by anything. Then comes the actual interception test. Another 100 sided dice is rolled, and if the result is less than the interceptors interceptionprobability from the XML, then the target is intercepted and aerial combat ensues. However, the interceptionprobablilty is modified by the interceptors current hitpoints, so the less hitpoints it has, the smaller the chance to intercept.

It's a very basic system, since all fighters in BTS come with a 100 interceptionprobability in the XML. So the only thing which lowers its chance to intercept is damage. And since the formula says currenthitpoints / maxhitpoints, and interception is 100, it follows that the chance to intercept equals the current hitpoints of the intercepting unit. Pretty boring if you ask me...

One thing to note: ONLY aerial units have their interception chance modified by damage. Ground units (my AA gun, SAM inf and mobile SAM) do not.

 

[Wolfshanze]

I probably just messed you up... sorry... I can't help myself sometimes... now you're THREE RELEASES behind the Wolfshanze Mod!

 

[Ninja2]

That's okay. I was almost ready to release a newer version, but then I gathered from your recent posts that you were about to upgrade as well. I figured I'd better wait...

I'm currently looking at improving the formula for interceptions, so that an Early Fighter can never intercept a Jet Bomber. Can anyone confirm that at the moment, in the Wolfshanze mod, an Early Fighter can intercept and turn away a Jet Bomber completely? I can't test it right now, and I need to be absolutely certain that I've got this right...

 

[Wolfshanze]

That's okay. I was almost ready to release a newer version, but then I gathered from your recent posts that you were about to upgrade as well. I figured I'd better wait...

Yeah... v2.72 wasn't exactly a state secret... but I had accumulated what I considered a good amount of pretty good stuff, and I wanted to release it (along with some important bug squashes... mostly DLL related, which doesn't really relate to you since you use a custom DLL yourself). The new movies, new Austrian music, and (of course) a lot of new models... just pushed me to release a new version... like I often say... I think I'm done for awhile (but you never know). I released everything I had accumulated to this point... nothing sitting on a backburner right now.

I'm currently looking at improving the formula for interceptions, so that an Early Fighter can never intercept a Jet Bomber. Can anyone confirm that at the moment, in the Wolfshanze mod, an Early Fighter can intercept and turn away a Jet Bomber completely? I can't test it right now, and I need to be absolutely certain that I've got this right...

Don't know about Early Fighters vs Jet Bombers... I tend to end most of my games just before I reach jets... I do know that Early Fighters can intercept regular Bombers... though they don't tend to do so-well when they do (the Early Fighters tend to get tore-up intercepting regular bombers).

 

[Ninja2]

Yeah... v2.72 wasn't exactly a state secret... but I had accumulated what I considered a good amount of pretty good stuff, and I wanted to release it (along with some important bug squashes... mostly DLL related, which doesn't really relate to you since you use a custom DLL yourself). The new movies, new Austrian music, and (of course) a lot of new models... just pushed me to release a new version... like I often say... I think I'm done for awhile (but you never know). I released everything I had accumulated to this point... nothing sitting on a backburner right now.

I know what you mean. I keep being surprised at the constant flow of new models that you find, though! That's well done!

Don't know about Early Fighters vs Jet Bombers... I tend to end most of my games just before I reach jets... I do know that Early Fighters can intercept regular Bombers... though they don't tend to do so-well when they do (the Early Fighters tend to get tore-up intercepting regular bombers).

Are the fighters badly damaged, or do they get killed? Are the bombers then turned around after the air combat, or do they then hit their targets?

 

[Wolfshanze]

Are the fighters badly damaged, or do they get killed? Are the bombers then turned around after the air combat, or do they then hit their targets?

Dunno... air combat happens so fast, I can hardly tell what's going on... I do know I've had my own WWII bombers shoot-down (or at least damage) WWI fighters the AI sends-up to intercept... and yes, I've had some bombers in-turn damaged by WWI fighters (don't think I ever lost a WWII bomber to a WWI fighter though). I haven't a clue if the interception actually caused the mission(s) to turn-back though... it all happens so fast!

I know what you mean. I keep being surprised at the constant flow of new models that you find, though! That's well done!

Let's just say I always have my eye open for new models, and I try to "gently" push folks in a direction that I think can be a benefit!... Other things just come out of the blue...

I think I'm done for awhile (but you never know). I released everything I had accumulated to this point... nothing sitting on a backburner right now.

Well, I lied... now I'm sitting-on the America P-38 model and have the thought of adding battering ram on my backburner... v2.73 officially has become a reality... don't plan on releasing it because of one new model and a new idea... so you're safe for awhile Ninja.

 

[marsrover21]

Hey there.

Just DL'd last night, and so far I have been having fun. But I do have a problem: the games keeps crashing btw. turn 93 and 94 (not sure what a CTD is, but maybe that's it?)

Specifics:

Civ/Leader: Germany/Hitler
Year/Turn: 550 BC/btw. 93 and 94
Cities Built: 4
Other: the turn before the crash, there is a Atilla the Hun/Horse Archer Event that pops up.

That's about it. This was my first play through, so I am a little disappointed. I tried reloading and doing a couple of things different, but I keep experiencing the crash.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Ninja2]

Marsrover,

Thanks for chiming in. CTD is a Crash To Desktop. Can you post a save game? Try attaching the save game as a zipped file to your reply... Most people only experience crashes in the late/very late game, this is the first time I've heard of early game crashing. Can you play Beyond the Sword patched to 3.13 without crashes to the end?