Bug or Feature - Agnostic religions?
- Thread starter Breunor
- Start date
Could you adopt one as a state religion?
Agnostic civs can still research the necessary techs....hell, they can even have religions spread to there cities, but there not supposed to be able to ADOPT A STATE RELIGION.
If that's still the case, then I don't think it's a bug.
I may be wrong though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Agnostic civs can still research the necessary techs....hell, they can even have religions spread to there cities, but there not supposed to be able to ADOPT A STATE RELIGION.
If that's still the case, then I don't think it's a bug.
I may be wrong though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Nor'easter
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,027
Actually, Agnostic civs cannot research religious techs, those are blocked. So obtaining them through the Eyes and Ears Network would be a bug.
You're right that religions can spread to their cities, but since they can't research the religious techs, they can't build the temples.
I see....thanks for the clarification. I must admit that I've never played the agnostic civs because I can't bear the fact of not gaining the benefits of a religion....
Perhaps I should give the Grigori a whirl afterall....those adventurers do look soooo nice.
Perhaps I should give the Grigori a whirl afterall....those adventurers do look soooo nice.
Nor'easter
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,027
I always play all random civs, so it's been a while since I played either the Grigori or the Illians.
Adventurers are definitely fun.
The Illians are interesting, too, with their rituals, Temples of the Hand, etc.
Adventurers are definitely fun.
The Illians are interesting, too, with their rituals, Temples of the Hand, etc.
HadesScorn
Warlord
It may be a bug, but its been reported for a long time. Heck, with dungeons you can spawn a Disciple of X and found a religion as Cassiel on turn 5. Granted, you'll never be able to adopt it to gain the benefits, but you *will* get the cash from the religion wonder if you spend a GP on it.
The Eyes and Ears thing looks familiar, iir it won't be fixed because it would require some very delicate/impossible coding.
The Eyes and Ears thing looks familiar, iir it won't be fixed because it would require some very delicate/impossible coding.
Don't forget about the other "bugs" in getting techs. An agnostic leader can get the techs thanks to being on the same team as a non-agnostic leader. Anyone can also get the religion specific techs from a religion they don't follow this way. Even civ specific techs work this way.
The "problem" is that players don't research techs, TEAMS do. That's not likely to change any time soon (nor should it imo) so expect these things to stay like they are.
The "problem" is that players don't research techs, TEAMS do. That's not likely to change any time soon (nor should it imo) so expect these things to stay like they are.
I would imagine this is a feature, actually. Lore-wise, Cassiel views religious intolerance as just as big a threat as religious fanaticism, and he tolerates any religion in his cities so long as they don't harm anyone or impose their beliefs. State religions are right out, but missionaries and temples are fine, so long as they are not funded by the state (i.e. build queue).
I've known for a long time that they can get disciples from lairs and the like, and that they could found a religion - however, that is different from being able to research the religion. By researching the religion, you can build disciples, temples for happiness, priests for healing, religious heroes, etc. So I don't consider them equivalent.
Snarko's point is important here, but I'm not sure again if this is a feature or a bug. Team play is different and a lot of wierd things happen, so it may be OK for teams while not OK for individual play. Or as others have said, it may be a feature.
On the feature side, by the time you get the Eyes and Ears Network, it is usually fairly late in the game so the benefits of having the religion are reduced. For example, by its nature many other Civ's have the religion, so getting the heroes is unlikely.
Best wishes,
Breunor
Snarko's point is important here, but I'm not sure again if this is a feature or a bug. Team play is different and a lot of wierd things happen, so it may be OK for teams while not OK for individual play. Or as others have said, it may be a feature.
On the feature side, by the time you get the Eyes and Ears Network, it is usually fairly late in the game so the benefits of having the religion are reduced. For example, by its nature many other Civ's have the religion, so getting the heroes is unlikely.
Best wishes,
Breunor
They can't get the heroes because they can't adopt the religion which those require.
They can't build the temples because they are disabled for the grigori*.
They can't build the disciples/priests because those require the temple.
There's little, if anything, they get from the techs.
*Interestingly the Illians can build them... so I guess in that case you do have a point.
They can't build the temples because they are disabled for the grigori*.
They can't build the disciples/priests because those require the temple.
There's little, if anything, they get from the techs.
*Interestingly the Illians can build them... so I guess in that case you do have a point.
Sephi
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,315
are you sure you can build priests and religious heroes without state religion? I guess THAT would be a bug then.
edit: yeah, Illians being able to build the temples is quite odd.
Avahz Darkwood
Emperor
The only reason I can think of is that they dont have a basic T1 healing unit like the Grigori...
Oops, you are right, I can't! I can get the tech, but since I can't adopt the religion, I can't do anything that having the state religion requires.
Given that, getting the tech is pretty much useless, so I'm now thinking it is working as planned. Pretty much the only benefit is that you can trade it.
Best wishes,
Breunor
Nor'easter
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,027
Can you build the temples? It's been a while since I played an Agnostic civ, so I don't remember. You don't need a state religion to build the temples, so if an Agnostic civ can build temples, then the religious techs are not completely useless, since you'll get the temple's benefits.
After Sephi's post, I reloaded the game and tried building the temples; I couldn't, so I think it is working OK. I hope someone else checks this out to make sure I'm not doing something wrong.
Best wishes,
Breunor
Avahz Darkwood
Emperor
Tried it in wild mana and could not build it as well. Seems (IIRC) they were able too at one time or another...
Nor'easter
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,027
If they're blocked from building the temples, then it's probably okay that they can get the religious techs through the Eyes and Ears Network. As Breunor said, that makes the tech pretty much useless, except as something to trade.
I do agree with Sephi that it's odd that the Illians can build the various temples if they somehow obtain the religious techs. Avahz might be right that it's to allow them T1 healing units, but still, seems weird.
I do agree with Sephi that it's odd that the Illians can build the various temples if they somehow obtain the religious techs. Avahz might be right that it's to allow them T1 healing units, but still, seems weird.
Emptiness
[]
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 1,922
The Illians are short on T1 healing, but have early (though limited) access to T2 healing. Charismatic also makes it easier to afford March on their melee units. They should probably be blocked from building the temples, just like the Grigori are now. The power of T1 healers has greatly diminished by the time they'd be getting religion techs from The Eyes and Ears Network or an alliance anyway.
Nor'easter
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,027
Also, the value of the religious techs as trade-bait that late in the game would be pretty small.
Similar threads
