Building an Empire

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Vaney168

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Hello Everyone:king:

I have a couple of questions related to tiles and buildings depending of certain civs, I was wondering what would be best to do. When I start a game is it best for a worker to start irrigating near a river first to pump out settlers or would it be better to emphasize of production and build mines on hills for wonders? I’m also wondering what to do with desert and plain tiles; I want to use these to my advantage. Is it better to build mines or irrigate desert/plain tiles? Desert tiles don’t produce much in the way of food anyways but if I have a city next to floodplains is it better for production even though it doesn't make any food?

Next question is related to the civilizations cultural traits and what I should be focusing on to build. For an agricultural civ is it best to emphasize on growth, Commercial civs on markets and military civs on barracks etc? What kind of civ should I be using, are the Greeks best of military and scientific/commercial output? Do these traits really add anything in the way of an advantage?
 
Im thinking about using the Greeks for my next match, what kinds of advantages/disadvantages do they have? There UU seems nice but weird to start a Golden age with
 
I'm currently playing the Greeks, the nice thing about the UU is you get to skip the Pikeman upgrade. It will be your main defender for quite a while so if a golden age doesn't get triggered as a defender you can always attack a redlined Ancient Age unit anytime. Commercial/Scientific is probably your best chance at staying ahead of the AI on the Tech Tree.

On the worker subject be aware that irrigating grassland doesn't help until you adopt a government. Irrigating everything else is a plus if they are going to be worked by a citizen!
 
You actually need population in your settlements to work those mines. So population growth is almost always going to be a higher priority than production early in the game.

One of the big deals with using a Scientific civilization, like the Greeks, is that you have higher chances of getting a Scientific Great Leader when you are the first to research a technology. The Scientific Great Leader can hurry building production in a settlement, which means building a Wonder in 1 turn. So press research to stay ahead of the AI and play the Wonder lottery. Particularly try to be the first to Philosophy, because the free tech you get with being the first to Philosophy gives you a second shot at a Scientific Great Leader. Go after Literature as soon as possible to get some libraries built as soon as possible (which only require half the time to build for a Scientific civilization). Population growth is still a top priority (more population = more money = more research funds), but you will probably have your settlement growth rolling by the time you research Literature.

Personally, I don't go after building Wonders in the Ancient Age. I don't consider them to be all that great, dedicating a settlement to building one early slows down my expansion, and the AI production bonuses give them a significant advantage early in the game. I am happy to snag them for free though if I get a Scientific Great Leader, with the Pyramids topping the list for the one I'd take.
 
Well-executed early moves create advantages that can be magnified over time. Poorly-executed ones can turn into long-term deficits. IMO, one of the best articles in the Civ 3 War Academy is Cracker's Opening Plays. I'd suggest reading that one, Vaney168, as it does a fine job of helping one sort out those early worker moves.
 
Vaney168 said:
Im thinking about using the Greeks for my next match, what kinds of advantages/disadvantages do they have? There UU seems nice but weird to start a Golden age with
Click to expand...
The Greeks are scientific and commercial. Scientific increases your chances of getting an SGL, as well as giving you a free tech at each change of age. Commercial results in lower corruption, a trait that doesn't really hit its stride until, oh, at least the middle ages.

The Hoplite is a really good AA defender. However, using a defender to start your GA can mean that the AI decides when that happens.
 
Aabraxan said:
The Greeks are scientific and commercial. Scientific increases your chances of getting an SGL, as well as giving you a free tech at each change of age. Commercial results in lower corruption, a trait that doesn't really hit its stride until, oh, at least the middle ages.
Click to expand...

You also get a little bit of extra commerce from the city centers. That is something that does matter early on, because when your cities are still small an additional commerce makes a significant relative difference.
 
I never really though about it but I guess sending workers to mine hills early in the game is not the top priority except for luxuries that might be on them. Roads and irrigation are the most important to keep settlers pumping out, the only thing Is that with the Depo penalty it is nice to have some extra shields to build wonders

The scientific trait gives a free tech right at the start of any age? does it by any chance give extra techs when the Great Library is built?
 
Vaney168 said:
I never really though about it but I guess sending workers to mine hills early in the game is not the top priority except for luxuries that might be on them. Roads and irrigation are the most important to keep settlers pumping out, the only thing Is that with the Depo penalty it is nice to have some extra shields to build wonders

The scientific trait gives a free tech right at the start of any age? does it by any chance give extra techs when the Great Library is built?
Click to expand...

No, a free tech for you would is not a benefit of the Great Library. And in fact, if you are going to try to grab an ancient wonder, the Great Library would be of very little help to you as the Greeks. One of your comparative advantages is scientific research, you should be pressing your advantage and doing that research. Every new tech that you research first gives you a spin on the Scientific Great Leader lottery.

The Great Library is useful if you find yourself behind in researching (which you shouldn't be), or letting you turn research off completely to fund a military campaign (which squanders the Scientific trait).

Building the Great Library could trigger a Golden Age. But so could a number of potentially more useful Wonders- The Great Lighthouse, Smith's Trading Company, Magellan's Voyage, Newton's University, and if you haven't triggered your Golden Age by the Industrial Age, there is the Theory of Evolution.
 
I never really though about it but I guess sending workers to mine hills early in the game is not the top priority except for luxuries that might be on them. Roads and irrigation are the most important to keep settlers pumping out, the only thing Is that with the Depo penalty it is nice to have some extra shields to build wonders
Click to expand...
But that's precisely the problem; the despo penalty trims a hill mine (12 worker turns) to being only as good as a plains mine (6 worker turns) or a forest (0 worker turns). So it's definitely something I put off until my core's plains, grasses and floods are improved.
 
Vaney168 said:
I never really though about it but I guess sending workers to mine hills early in the game is not the top priority except for luxuries that might be on them. Roads and irrigation are the most important to keep settlers pumping out, the only thing Is that with the Depo penalty it is nice to have some extra shields to build wonders

The scientific trait gives a free tech right at the start of any age? does it by any chance give extra techs when the Great Library is built?
Click to expand...
(emphasis supplied)

In order to get a luxury, you do not have to mine it. Just road it, and connect the road to your empire. Also, the lux must be within your cultural borders, or you'll have to either build a colony, or plant a city on it. That last one is really the fastest way to hook up a resource. Be advised, though: You can build a city on a lux, and get the lux's benefit. However, if you build on a food resource, you lose that benefit.
 
There are certain times when it may be worthwhile to plant that mine early. Resources often come with gold or production bonuses that make it attractive to work the hill right away; in that case, it may make sense to go ahead and mine it. Just don't forget that it takes extra time, and the time it takes your worker to place that mine, the worker could have added roads and/or irrigation or ditches to several other squares. In most cases it makes sense to do the faster improvements first, but there is room to use your judgment to make exceptions.

If part of your strategy is to focus on a couple of settlements to increase their productivity, even at the cost of spending extra time early improving hills, it may be a good idea to pump out a few extra workers to compensate for the ones that will be tied up improving hills.
 
Aabraxan said:
(emphasis supplied)

In order to get a luxury, you do not have to mine it. Just road it, and connect the road to your empire. Also, the lux must be within your cultural borders, or you'll have to either build a colony, or plant a city on it. That last one is really the fastest way to hook up a resource. Be advised, though: You can build a city on a lux, and get the lux's benefit. However, if you build on a food resource, you lose that benefit.
Click to expand...

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/resources the city keeps the shield and commerce benefits. But loses the food benefits...
So building on a wheat (+2 food) or game (+1 food) makes no lick of sense.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98279
Cuivienen said:
The Four Rules of Building on Resources

1. Any resources which provide Gold bonuses still provide Gold under a city.
2. Any resources which provide Shield bonuses still provide Shields under a city.
3. Any resources which provide Food bonuses DO NOT provide Food under a city.
4. A city built on Bonus Grassland will, when it reaches size 7, gain an extra shield.
Click to expand...
 
Rapid expansion is paramount at the beginning of the game, so focus on irrigation where it does provide a food bonus, but don't forget the despotism penalty! Until you're out of it, irrigating a normal or bonus grassland is useless because the food bonus would be nullified by the despo penalty.
 
Lord Emsworth said:
You also get a little bit of extra commerce from the city centers. That is something that does matter early on, because when your cities are still small an additional commerce makes a significant relative difference.
Click to expand...
I always thought, the commercial bonus does not make a difference early on, because a city needs to be at least size 7 in order to get it. (And usually you don't get size 7 cities until the end of ancient age/beginning of middle age.)


MysteryX said:
There are certain times when it may be worthwhile to plant that mine early. Resources often come with gold or production bonuses that make it attractive to work the hill right away; in that case, it may make sense to go ahead and mine it. Just don't forget that it takes extra time, and the time it takes your worker to place that mine, the worker could have added roads and/or irrigation or ditches to several other squares. In most cases it makes sense to do the faster improvements first, but there is room to use your judgment to make exceptions.

If part of your strategy is to focus on a couple of settlements to increase their productivity, even at the cost of spending extra time early improving hills, it may be a good idea to pump out a few extra workers to compensate for the ones that will be tied up improving hills.
Click to expand...

This is true especially when playing for 20K.
 
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