TruePurple
Civ wanna B
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By "tighter build" you mean closer?
building city improvements faster
- Thread starter macthk
- Start date
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
Yes, that's what I mean. Before railroads I have my specialist farms building workers and settlers; I try to land-grab in such a way that I can increase the density later. If need be (in a milking situation) I can reduce the density later on.
Yes and no. If I'm not mistaken (& I invite correction if I am), if you seize the Temple of Artemis from the AI before it goes obsolete, you will get a temple in every city on the same continent. The Temple of Artemis will not generate any culture for you, but the temples that spring up in your cities will. Captured wonders don't generate culture for you, but you get the other benefits they provide.
I'd also add that, if you're having happiness problems in your specialist farms, they may be getting too large. Specialists are always content, so if you create as many as town will support and have decent luxes, you shouldn't have a happiness problem. If they're still growing, you might consider skimming workers or settlers out of them.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
You are not mistaken.
TruePurple
Civ wanna B
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Specialist don't need to be made happy but the guys working tiles for food do.
MAS
Deity
Imagine a size 6 specialist farm with 3 scientist.
1 is born content. now you only need 2 lux resources.
But more likely you will have them at size 4 or 5. With either 2 or 3 specialist.
i'm slowly figuring this out.
the only reason to build temples is to expand your borders. so .... build a temple, wait 5 turns, once borders expand, sell it. this is useful when waging war. you take an enemy city close to your border and move all your troops in. once the borders expand, you should be able to cap the next city same turn if you are using units such as calvary.
to keep citizens happy up your lux tax, get as many lux resources as possible, or manage their population so that it never gets to a size where there will be disorder. this means making settlers, workers, and/or specialists. also, never building aqueducts in far away cities where everyones gonna be unhappy and corrupt anyway.
also you should never build libraries or universities, because keeping up with computer tech is impossible at harder difficulties. of course i only play at regent so i still build them
the only reason to build temples is to expand your borders. so .... build a temple, wait 5 turns, once borders expand, sell it. this is useful when waging war. you take an enemy city close to your border and move all your troops in. once the borders expand, you should be able to cap the next city same turn if you are using units such as calvary.
to keep citizens happy up your lux tax, get as many lux resources as possible, or manage their population so that it never gets to a size where there will be disorder. this means making settlers, workers, and/or specialists. also, never building aqueducts in far away cities where everyones gonna be unhappy and corrupt anyway.
also you should never build libraries or universities, because keeping up with computer tech is impossible at harder difficulties. of course i only play at regent so i still build them
TruePurple
Civ wanna B
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fishjie, you got it quite wrong on all accounts.
Reason to build structures like temples & cathedral are for the happiness(which means lower lux slider which means more gold/science) Also cultural expansion continous past the first. So more culture generators the better for flipping and preventing flip.
For both reasons building temples then selling then at first expansion is the height of newbism in all but the rarest of circumstances.
Unless you plan to play deity level(which it sounds like your a long long LOOONG ways away from) you shouldn't have too much trouble making tech. And diety level the AI will quickly outstripe you of tech, sure. But if you do no researching at all you'll just die from vastely superior units. The trick is to research stuff the AI doesn't research or hasn't researched then trade for other tech. Without libraries or universities.. good luck with that.
Reason to build structures like temples & cathedral are for the happiness(which means lower lux slider which means more gold/science) Also cultural expansion continous past the first. So more culture generators the better for flipping and preventing flip.
For both reasons building temples then selling then at first expansion is the height of newbism in all but the rarest of circumstances.
Unless you plan to play deity level(which it sounds like your a long long LOOONG ways away from) you shouldn't have too much trouble making tech. And diety level the AI will quickly outstripe you of tech, sure. But if you do no researching at all you'll just die from vastely superior units. The trick is to research stuff the AI doesn't research or hasn't researched then trade for other tech. Without libraries or universities.. good luck with that.
I don't know what you mean by that. The guy's working for food don't need to be happy. If you try to make them all happy by increasing the lux slider, then you are wasting money. All you need is the same amount of happy citizens as unhappy and there is no rioting. There is no bonus if they're happy. With the exception of WLTKD, but you don't really need that. Although it's always nice.
@macthk: So you do have vanilla. You can't build airfields in vanilla. Airfields act as airports. Thus, you can airlift units and land air units on them.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
TruePurple, in my opinion fisjie is closer to the truth.
You don't want to build temples or cathedrals for happiness. In your core cities, the luxury slider can give you all the happiness you need (I'm assuming you've managed to get a couple of luxuries and have marketplaces). In your corrupt cities, you avoid happiness problems by making specialists--generally scientists because they give the best value (three beakers compared with two gold).
I'm not sure about using temples to push borders during war though, I'd rather look for short paths to enemy cities, or use settlers to push back the borders. Temples would certainly work, it's just too slow. And the best form of flip-prevention is eliminating the offending AI.
Do build libraries and universities in your core if you intend to do your own research, but trading is very important on higher levels.
If you want to go for 100k, that's different.
You don't want to build temples or cathedrals for happiness. In your core cities, the luxury slider can give you all the happiness you need (I'm assuming you've managed to get a couple of luxuries and have marketplaces). In your corrupt cities, you avoid happiness problems by making specialists--generally scientists because they give the best value (three beakers compared with two gold).
I'm not sure about using temples to push borders during war though, I'd rather look for short paths to enemy cities, or use settlers to push back the borders. Temples would certainly work, it's just too slow. And the best form of flip-prevention is eliminating the offending AI.
Do build libraries and universities in your core if you intend to do your own research, but trading is very important on higher levels.
If you want to go for 100k, that's different.
MAS
Deity
MacSoft ported the vanilla Civ3 to the mac, but they quit working with Firaxis at some point, then Aspyr ported the complete Civ3 to the mac some time later. Complete is a single DVD with both PTW and C3C.
The only difference with the Windows version is that the Mac version doesn't have an editor. But everything else works, even the scenarios and other game-mods our windows using friends build with their editor.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
TruePurple said:
Selling temple after the first border expansion can actually be an excellent strategy for domination games.
Because coastal and sea tiles count for the domination limit, it is important to have your coastal cities get a border expansion. At the same time, you don't want to have all your far-flung corrupted cities having to pay maintenance costs on happiness improvements. (Just use the happy slider for
, of course...) So, either build or rush a cultural building, wait for the first expansion, and then...sell! Works like a charm.TruePurple
Civ wanna B
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For highly corrupt cities in domination game.. maybe.. but even then.. keep the culture produces around till at least second expansion. Maybe even third. (fourth takes forever and a day, especially if only a single library, temple)
Especially since being a highly corrupt city it will be costly or difficult or time consuming to get a library or temple in there in the first place.
Also you can't use lux slider on corrupt cities. So if you need happiness in such specialist farms.. you need temples. Yes if you got lux resouces you can avoid such since specialist farms dont grow much unless theres ALOT of excess food available.
Anyways fishjie really has the wrong end of the stick so to speak. Talking about temples and libraries being useless everywhere and only something you produce for a single border expansion then sell.
Especially since being a highly corrupt city it will be costly or difficult or time consuming to get a library or temple in there in the first place.
Also you can't use lux slider on corrupt cities. So if you need happiness in such specialist farms.. you need temples. Yes if you got lux resouces you can avoid such since specialist farms dont grow much unless theres ALOT of excess food available.
Anyways fishjie really has the wrong end of the stick so to speak. Talking about temples and libraries being useless everywhere and only something you produce for a single border expansion then sell.
actually ive been reading the legendary games in stories and tales. no one builds temples or libraries. they are complete wastes of shields AND money. they are a huge drain on your resources. if you have a library university temple cathedral and colosseum thats 5 gold a turn for what? they are worthless. its pointless and impossible to keep up in either culture or tech. to make up for tech, you trade for it. they usually do science slider at 0 and a one scientist run for specific techs. to prevent flip, you raze every city you cap. also, there is a culture flip formula, as long as you garrison enough units (or there are no tiles in your city radius overlapping enemy cities), it will NEVER flip. finally for happiness, you garrison/trade for luxuries, manage the population.
you should try reading the strategy section because it sounds you are the one who is wrong. and this is stuff that gets said in every thread too, so saying building temples is good is the height of newbism. this has been hammered home in thread after thread.
my goal is to beat the game on deity btw, on lower difficulties of course you can build those structures and still win, but at later levels, the wasted shields and money will cost the game for sure.
edit: oh and i forgot to mention, in addition to razing cities to prevent culture flip, you can also starve them down to a single citizen.
edit: why would you waste money on a library in a highly corrupt city anyway? its wasting one gold per turn plus its not giving you any science since you're losing it to corruption. you're better off with specialists.
you should try reading the strategy section because it sounds you are the one who is wrong. and this is stuff that gets said in every thread too, so saying building temples is good is the height of newbism. this has been hammered home in thread after thread.
my goal is to beat the game on deity btw, on lower difficulties of course you can build those structures and still win, but at later levels, the wasted shields and money will cost the game for sure.
edit: oh and i forgot to mention, in addition to razing cities to prevent culture flip, you can also starve them down to a single citizen.
edit: why would you waste money on a library in a highly corrupt city anyway? its wasting one gold per turn plus its not giving you any science since you're losing it to corruption. you're better off with specialists.
Umm... You don't need temples. They're useless on specialist farms. They take like 60 turns to build. And you can use the lux slider in corrupt cities. There should be A LOT of excess food available because you should have irrigated every tile around the specialist farm, that's the purpose of them.
You should not have any happiness problems because two thirds of you citizens should be scientists or tax collectors.
Not exactly. Fishjie's strategy can be useful. But building temples in corrupt cities is not useful. Of course, there are some exceptions but in 90% of games there's no exception. Apart from culture Victory conditions.
right. playing at the harder difficulty levels is an entirely different game. research buildings are useful at lower difficulties. i play at regent right now (once i win this 20k i am working on, i'll go monarch and up) so i build some in cities with low corruption. however, i have found happiness buildings to be completely worthless on all difficulties except with the obvious exception of 100k and 20k games. not to mention if you read the legendary games, ppl playing on sid and deity, where you only get ONE content citizen per city, the players STILL do not build happiness buildings, because on those games, the wasted shields and upkeep costs would kill them. now if the top players on the site are not building happiness buildings, its pretty solid evidence that they are indeed garbage.
before i read threads on here i'd build them, however, there is no reason for specialist cities to grow beyond size 6, especially if you are doing a close build.
before i read threads on here i'd build them, however, there is no reason for specialist cities to grow beyond size 6, especially if you are doing a close build.
That's all true... One golden rule in deity and over is NEVER EVER build temples. It's way more pain then gain, especially in higher levels.
EDIT: Of course people can play like they want but building temples on demigod and over is not worth it. And it's still not worth it in lower difficulty levels like regent IMO.
EDIT: Of course people can play like they want but building temples on demigod and over is not worth it. And it's still not worth it in lower difficulty levels like regent IMO.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
I'm not sure I'd say it quite as strenuously as you and fishjie are saying it.
There are certain situations--limited to be sure--where building temples can be useful on Deity or Sid, and I'm not just talking about 100k or 20k. For instance, in a Deity SGOTM I've read up on, a lot of teams built an early temple in their capital for happiness purposes. In that specific game, the capital had a lot of extra shield potential that, surprisingly, really couldn't be used for much for quite a while. Plus, the teams needed all the gpt they could get for research, so some of them built a temple.
If you have a mega-city or two that are causing you to raise the lux slider to keep the peace, building a temple might be the way to go. Of course, luxes are more efficient, but not always an option.
I'll give you one more example: in my recent COTM at DG, I was making a fast Diplo run. I needed max gpt for research, and I had a number of core cities with extra shield potential. Moreover, I had been denied access to some luxes by a strong neighbor, and going to war would have been more costly than it was worth, IMO. So, I proceeded to build temples and cathedrals in my core and as such could lower the lux slider by 10% or more. It saved me hundreds of gpt that I could then pour into research.
So, although I can't believe it myself
, I just made a case for building happiness improvements in certain situations... 
