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I would not blame this on ignorance. I believe the Western media is at fault here. The news today seems all about emotion (often fear or sadness) instead of scientific or statistical facts, but underneath is a hidden guidance by the people in power (the invisible elite controlling the government). Western (social) media today is all about keeping people ignorant and keeping people busy (I sound like a conspiracy theorist now, I know, sorry).
Call it whatever you want, but to refuse to listen to any other side than your own (or refuse to acknowledge the multifaceted condition of reality [that there's more than one side to things]) is ignorance in my book.
Whether media contributes to ignorance or not is not really relevant, people produce media, people consume media.
People can pursue perspective, or choose the "simplification of existence" (ignorance is bliss) provided by their tunnel vision by dismissing everything that complicates the picture.
The latter might be some kind of conflict avoidance adaptation, an instinct I mean... Interesting path of inquiry that, but not all that relevant to the discussion at hand seeing as it angles it on the determinism vs free will question, which would be a distraction.
 
people produce media, people consume media.
Corporations mostly produce the media we see. Corporations with an agenda driven by their sources of funding and ownership. It's an oligarch faction war over here and from what I can tell that's not just an East/West world thing anymore either but a global matter now. As some have put it, we have Earth 1 and Earth 2, depending on who you believe.
 
Problem is communism trys to raise and cut/destroy the democratic lifestyle, putin wants to reestablish the soviet union, they funded the brexit to destabilize europe, they funded trump and they team up with china, they will not allow democratic elections russia and china is defacto lead by dictators now. They invaded the krim, they will invade more if they dont get a clear message, you want to life like the chineses do or have to? That will lead to that we are orderd to game only 2 hours a week C2C, we dont want that do we? :)

You can see the propaganda by RT russia television/russia today in germany, RT germany supports corona deniers and vaccine deniers and tell the pandemic is a hoax to destabilize germany, but in russia they support vaccines and tell the pandemic is real and go get vaccinated fast. :lol::thumbsup: Not to tell anything about china uighurs handling. C2C needs to have some propaganda implemented. :)

I say NATO has to be ready for a taiwan invasion and same time ukraine invasion, i hope putin is not so stupid and our planet will not be in even more trouble.

First before any coup there was a russian puppet installed in ukraine. Ppl had enouth of the communism lifestyle...

I think NATO will give the ukraine tools to be able to defend itself, not more to soon.


 
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Problem is communism trys to raise and cut/destroy the democratic lifestyle, putin wants to reestablish the soviet union, they funded the brexit to destabilize europe, they funded trump
I don't think this is communism at all and in fact it's a movement opposed to China. The idea here is a Nationalist agenda, Fascism. If Russia, UK and US were to establish a new Axis, Europe and China would quickly fall and the 3 could carve up the world along with whatever allies they actually do have. Destroy the UN and these fat cats have nothing to limit how fat they can get except perhaps for a little resistance from China which would be quickly put out of its misery.
 
Base still communism, control all alow less, captial communism has now a bit nationalism. :) But they did all the same under communism in the past, so it may only look like nationalism. US and UK will never drop democratic europe for russia. Russia was closer to the west some years ago but putin killed it by its self to his dream to reestablish the soviet union.

Added a video about putin bit more up now.
 
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Call it whatever you want, but to refuse to listen to any other side than your own (or refuse to acknowledge the multifaceted condition of reality [that there's more than one side to things]) is ignorance in my book.
And who's doing that, other than you? Russia's wars of conquest in Ukraine and Georgia are (like all wars of conquest) illegitimate. When the facts are simple, the enemies of truth depend on pretended complexities. And no crime is justified by who else is also doing it.
 
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Base still communism, control all alow less, captial communism has now a bit nationalism. :) But they did all the same under communism in the past, so it may only look like nationalism. US and UK will never drop democratic europe for russia. Russia was closer to the west some years ago but putin killed it by its self to his dream to reestablish the soviet union.
China communist party is same vibe as Democratic People's Republic of North Korea lol
That is china is authoritarian state capitalism, North Korea is totalitarian.
 
they will not allow democratic elections russia and china is defacto lead by dictators now. They invaded the krim, they will invade more if they dont get a clear message

Hello Pit2015, I don't know you, I don't mean to offend you.

Concerning the absence of democratic elections in Russia and China. Do you honestly believe the US has democratic elections? Do you know about gerrymandering? Because gerrymandering is by definition not democratic. Also about 10% of the US population controls 50% of the US senate (or something) because every state gets two senators, which means 10% of the people can block any kind of legislation, that does not sound very democratic. And the 'majority takes all' in US elections actively prevents smaller political parties from gaining traction, so the people of the US are stuck with only two options (both bow to the same lobby of US corporations by the way).

In China every person can join the CCP. They have very small local representatives in every community in China. Everyone can grow inside the CCP, just read about the political history of Xi Jinping, he was a nobody when he joined the CCP.

imho elections in their current form in the Western world are only giving people the illusion of democracy, imho they do more harm than good. I have thought about this a lot, and have constructed a much better way to organize elections, but since this cannot be implemented in Caveman2Cosmos I will not elaborate (that would be off topic).

A dictatorship also has advantages, like stability. The Chinese government can make long term plans and execute them. This is the opposite of the US where Trump cancelled a lot of huge decisions that Obama made, and now Biden is again reverting decisions from Trump.

Personally I would prefer to be a Chinese citizen over the US, and I think the majority of people on this planet would prefer this (for many many reasons like hospital bills and student debt and commercial prisons and the by far highest prison population in the world and the firearms everywhere and ...). Please do not be offended, i don't blame you for any of this.


Concerning the occupation of the Krim (or Hong Kong).
How do the people of Puerto Rico feel? They pay taxes but are not allowed to vote. Sounds like an occupation to me. The same goes for the occupied islands of Guam, Samoa, Mariana Islands, Virgin Islands hell even Hawaii and Alaska can be considered occupied. Alaska was bribed away from Russia, against the will of the natives. And just like China sends Han Chinese people to Tibet and Xinjiang, the US put Americans in Hawaii and Alaska. And when will the Native Americans get their land back?

But, well, Western media blames China for everything, like pollution and slave labour and more, but often its Western corporations controlling those Chinese factories.

Again apologies, I don't mean to offend anyone. This is just my current opinion and I could be wrong.
 
Almost all countries are shitholes compared to Nordics and Western Europe.
There is stability, government is relatively good, there is political, economic and personal freedom.
 
Hello Pit2015, I don't know you, I don't mean to offend you.

Concerning the absence of democratic elections in Russia and China. Do you honestly believe the US has democratic elections? Do you know about gerrymandering? Because gerrymandering is by definition not democratic. Also about 10% of the US population controls 50% of the US senate (or something) because every state gets two senators, which means 10% of the people can block any kind of legislation, that does not sound very democratic. And the 'majority takes all' in US elections actively prevents smaller political parties from gaining traction, so the people of the US are stuck with only two options (both bow to the same lobby of US corporations by the way).

In China every person can join the CCP. They have very small local representatives in every community in China. Everyone can grow inside the CCP, just read about the political history of Xi Jinping, he was a nobody when he joined the CCP.

imho elections in their current form in the Western world are only giving people the illusion of democracy, imho they do more harm than good. I have thought about this a lot, and have constructed a much better way to organize elections, but since this cannot be implemented in Caveman2Cosmos I will not elaborate (that would be off topic).

A dictatorship also has advantages, like stability. The Chinese government can make long term plans and execute them. This is the opposite of the US where Trump cancelled a lot of huge decisions that Obama made, and now Biden is again reverting decisions from Trump.

Personally I would prefer to be a Chinese citizen over the US, and I think the majority of people on this planet would prefer this (for many many reasons like hospital bills and student debt and commercial prisons and the by far highest prison population in the world and the firearms everywhere and ...). Please do not be offended, i don't blame you for any of this.


Concerning the occupation of the Krim (or Hong Kong).
How do the people of Puerto Rico feel? They pay taxes but are not allowed to vote. Sounds like an occupation to me. The same goes for the occupied islands of Guam, Samoa, Mariana Islands, Virgin Islands hell even Hawaii and Alaska can be considered occupied. Alaska was bribed away from Russia, against the will of the natives. And just like China sends Han Chinese people to Tibet and Xinjiang, the US put Americans in Hawaii and Alaska. And when will the Native Americans get their land back?

But, well, Western media blames China for everything, like pollution and slave labour and more, but often its Western corporations controlling those Chinese factories.

Again apologies, I don't mean to offend anyone. This is just my current opinion and I could be wrong.
Yeah yeah "democracy is the worst system apart from all the others". The flawed implementation of democracy does not mean dictatorship is better. Especially the Chinese version where they're dictators still pretending to be socialist.

Xi's rags-to-riches doesn't prove anyone can do it. Like most places, there is a decades-long grooming process to ensure the WORST person for the job. (Ergo Adam Sandler.)

Yes your take is wrong, and seems to be a lazy rehash of a Chinese propaganda tract.
 
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Almost all countries are ****holes compared to Nordics and Western Europe.
There is stability, government is relatively good, there is political, economic and personal freedom.

This may a billion dollar question...but, in your opinion, why?
 
captial communism
2 opposite terms - to use them like this makes each completely meaningless as one opposes the other diametrically. Russia is no longer communist in any fashion at all.
US and UK will never drop democratic europe for russia. Russia was closer to the west some years ago but putin killed it by its self to his dream to reestablish the soviet union.
Imo, this is exactly what Trump was about, shattering NATO and the UN and moving towards a sudden alliance with Russia. He had a hard time getting even the rest of the GOP onboard but clearly it was what he wanted to do as he was flexing in this direction, even going out of his way to TRY to offend European nations so they might do something to justify it politically here.
That is china is authoritarian state capitalism, North Korea is totalitarian.
They, too, have abandoned communism in all but name, but they do retain a strong authoritarianism and I get the feeling they can switch on a dime as well if they feel one serves them over another. The move towards capitalism has been a big part of the trade negotiations they've done very well to benefit from overall.
And the 'majority takes all' in US elections actively prevents smaller political parties from gaining traction, so the people of the US are stuck with only two options (both bow to the same lobby of US corporations by the way).
Man, this is so much the truth - we're hostages in our own Republic as the people have no power over the $ now. Though I do think it's 2 differing factions of oligarch interests that control the 2 different parties, there are significant ven diagram overlaps of united interests that pit the gov against the people either way.
and have constructed a much better way to organize elections, but since this cannot be implemented in Caveman2Cosmos I will not elaborate (that would be off topic).
Maybe in this thread, but not elsewhere, where such a discussion may well turn into future civics manifested. Plus - it's a good discussion to have. These are the solves we need imo. Ranked voting and such to enable 3rd party viability. Trying to pick the lock with the tools that hold it together becomes the tricky bit.
Personally I would prefer to be a Chinese citizen over the US, and I think the majority of people on this planet would prefer this (for many many reasons like hospital bills and student debt and commercial prisons and the by far highest prison population in the world and the firearms everywhere and ...)
And yet even fairly awake US citizens would not THINK this were the case thanks to the daily diet of propaganda fed from a firehose we are drowned in here. I'd rather be able to keep speaking english though, and would still prefer a better democracy (non-illusionary) to a strong authoritarianism. It's really an out of the frying pan into the fire kind of thing, much like what Trump represented in his 'resist the deep state for Russian interests instead' kind of approach.
 
And who's doing that, other than you? Russia's wars of conquest in Ukraine and Georgia are (like all wars of conquest) illegitimate. When the facts are simple, the enemies of truth depend on pretended complexities. And no crime is justified by who else is also doing it.
Sounds like sophism and strawman argumentation.
Are you saying I'm ignorant for questioning the majority narrative in the west which is: "We are the good and they are the bad."
Every geopolitical analysis and action justification by the west boils down to this backwater sentence.
Why did England send a destroyer with BBC journalists into known Russian territory in the black sea, the journalist explained it pretty clear in situ, they were there explicitly to provoke Russia. Boris Johnson when confronted with it said "umphump butth but they're the badd!"; well yeeees, that's a very convincing justification for trying to provoke an armed conflict with Russia indeed.
In Norway there was a political rhetoric about the "nice bombs" dropped on Libya, from Norway with love one might say. I on the other hand started calling our foreign minister a war criminal before the first bomb had time to fall on Libya. Afterwards bomber pilots have revealed that they were collectively sent on hundreds of sorties where their only mission statement was to find a target and strike it, it was up to the pilots to evaluate what a target was; many of the pilots got reprimanded for returning without having used much of their arsenal.
Medvedev was naïve enough not to veto the no fly zone over Libya, he was reprimanded by Putin for it when he got home to Russia, and it is likely the reason why he couldn't be the presidential candidate for the party again; gadhaffi was naïve enough to demobilize his entire air force respecting, and feeling protected by, the decisions of the UN, then Libya got bombed... so a UN no fly zone has now, by the action of the west, been redefined through precedence to a "bomb a nation" directive...
When nationals traveled from Norway, Britain, and so on to fight against Assad they were honored as our heroes, they had to be because they were fighting the "bad", later they were stamped as criminals and not allowed back into our countries. Very few remembered the mistake of branding them heroes when they left, I remember a Norwegian politician I will not nameshame who appeared on National television in full profile in front of the parliament shouting to the camera "we must bomb Assad now!" around the early time of the civil war over there. Around the same time Putin wrote a plea to the American people in the New York times, a plea not to push for regime change in Syria, not to support extremists or meddle militarily.
The west has destabilized and broken so many countries, and is still at it in full vigor against several, that it's ridiculous.
US use torture extensively, it's ok because they are definitely the good, and they are probably (not like there's much evidence needed to end up in American torture chambers) doing it to the bad.

I could go on and on about how our narrative is twisted to the core, deeply paranoid, and unbelievably irrational, but here's my point and real response to Yudi.
I study this mainstream narrative about "angels" (us) and "demons" (them), I do not dismiss it as fantasy that should not be taken seriously, I know the majority in the victorious nations, the dominant west, believes it, and therefore I cannot dismiss it; and I've never found a single thread in it that made it in any way credible to me, so yes, I will question it, and you may call me ignorant for doing so.
Russia is by far the more respectful, trustworthy, reasonable, predictable, and legitimate actor on the world stage when compared to the schizophrenic idiocracy of the west that lash out like a big angry child against the rest of the world.
The US break international laws as a favourite pastime sport, brags and takes pride in it usually, Russia does it occasionally and never admits it as if it was something shameful.
That is my humble opinion, that the west is by far the most bloodthirsty barbarian-like warlord on the map.
Luckily the American Hegemony seems to be crumbling, though it is worrying too, because an empire rarely fall quietly.
 
Imo, this is exactly what Trump was about, shattering NATO and the UN and moving towards a sudden alliance with Russia. He had a hard time getting even the rest of the GOP onboard but clearly it was what he wanted to do as he was flexing in this direction, even going out of his way to TRY to offend European nations so they might do something to justify it politically here.
What do you base this nonsense on, slander?
Steele dossier?
Trump didn't represent any major political shift in American foreign affairs. America, not trump in particular, was and still is offending Europe in so many ways. Just look at Biden, who kept up most of Trumps foreign politics, sanctions on Germany, won't give in to Europe's wish that the US should reenter the Iranian Nuclear deal, won't lift the sanctions on Cuba (that trump reintroduced to spite Obama who originally removed them while Biden was his vp), follows trumps sanction regime against Venezuela, won't move the US embassy in Israel back to Tel Aviv, greatly offended France over arms deals with Australia, embracing the protectionism Trump was so ridiculed for standing by.... etc. etc.
Trump went out of his way to initiate an arms race with Russia, and he made Europe pay for most of it (haha, Mexican wall reference) (Trump's NATO build up policy is very Russia hostile in case you're not aware), he slammed sanctions on Russia that he easily could have vetoed if he was so in love with Russia as you seem to think he was (I'm basing this on more than this one post from you on the topic). Russia's relationship with the US only soured throughout Trumps presidency, not that it soured throughout most of Obamas presidency and now it's gonna sour throughout Biden's presidency.
 
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Russia is by far the more respectful, trustworthy, reasonable, predictable, and legitimate actor on the world stage when compared to the schizophrenic idiocracy of the west that lash out like a big angry child against the rest of the world.
It is easy to be consistent and predictable when you don't have elections, or if you have, then same party keeps ruling :D
Populist far right rise is a trick to remove fickle democracy and replace it with predictable authoritarianism.
 
It is easy to be consistent and predictable when you don't have elections, or if you have, then same party keeps ruling :D
Yeah, like Germany having been the most consistent and predictable European power the last 16 years.
It is not necessarily a bad thing that one party dominates in a democracy, might be the other choices are not attractive enough.
At least the loosing parties get some representation in most democracies; in Norway we currently have 10 parties represented in our parliament, in Russia there are 4 parties in the duma, and in the US there are 2 parties in congress.
 
What do you base this nonsense on, slander?
Steele dossier?
Trump's own statements long before, during and after running and taking office. Putin's statements before, during and after Trump took office. The Guccifer hack and how all that went down and the timing and strategy of it. Following the financial backing Trump had from Russia ever since his impressive and absolute total financial collapse left him without anyone else willing to support him. Closely watching all sources of information and seeing how it all connects. His cabinet choices, who they are, who they were connected to and how. The Steel Dossier was meaningless. You don't have to hold anything over a completely enlisted ally. I suspect that was mostly a red herring operation or an outright fabrication to make the truth sound dubious. Trump never did anything to speak against Russia, but he sure took shot after shot at European allies and the UN and tried to make anything Russia did sound like it was China's doing - which some was and some wasn't. The point being he was doing all he could to change the narrative to 'China bad', 'Russia good'. He called repeatedly to end the embargoes against Russia and it was purely Congressional refusal that held Putin's feet to the fire in any manner regarding its international transgressions. His missile strikes against Syria came after warnings sent to the Russians to move from the target locations (which was a similar strategy he used when he negotiated with Iran to allow them to strike at us with minimal to no casualties so as to save face and diffuse actual conflict.) Trump is quoted as saying, despite our FBI and CIA fully claiming to have proof of Russia's hacking us and sending waves of online influencers to manipulate public opinion, that "Putin says he didn't do any of that so I don't see any reason not to believe him..." Of course not.

Let's just ignore that for years he's been talking about how much business he does with Russia and Putin and how much he 'knows' Putin personally and knows him to be taking an intense interest in what happens here politically and so on. And where he more recently denies all this, his sons continue to be caught on tape confirming the same. When you evaluate how the rooms in those towers are used to shuffle international money around, it becomes much more clear how he's been helping to launder money all this time, and why the Russian bank, through the anonymity of Deutsche bank funding, has been used to cut him whatever blank checks he needs for those projects, and how he fabricated any statements needed to legally show his capacity to obtain said limitless loans. It was soon after these initial tower arrangements were made that he began to go on Television to build up his credibility in the eyes of the people as a great business leader that demands accountability (which we all know voters feel our government fails to do on every level.) We were being sold HIM for years before he made this bid and when he almost went into politics in 08, it was the fact he'd have to be transparent with his taxes that he changed his mind and chose not to run... something that he's done a very good job fighting open disclosure of ever since he did actually run.

Don't forget too that he nearly ran as a Democrat in 08. He's whoever he needs to be to get into position, but by this perspective, it becomes a little more clear why Putin lamented, during Trump's term, that the US President actually has shockingly little power in the government...
 
Trump didn't represent any major political shift in American foreign affairs. America, not trump in particular, was and still is offending Europe in so many ways.
As of now, yes perhaps. We may still be keeping some options open that Trump introduced and there's some possibility that despite Trump not being the selected person in the Bohemian Grove to take the Presidency (the first time I think that's ever happened that a non-endorsed candidate did so) he may still have been asked to push towards some policy shifts we meant to take anyhow. But yeah, the pulling out of the Paris Accord, the Iranian deal etc... all pretty big signs of what I'm pointing towards.

Just look at Biden, who kept up most of Trumps foreign politics, sanctions on Germany, won't give in to Europe's wish that the US should reenter the Iranian Nuclear deal, won't lift the sanctions on Cuba (that trump reintroduced to spite Obama who originally removed them while Biden was his vp), follows trumps sanction regime against Venezuela, won't move the US embassy in Israel back to Tel Aviv, greatly offended France over arms deals with Australia, embracing the protectionism Trump was so ridiculed for standing by.... etc. etc.
It's admittedly hard to understand why Biden hasn't immediately reversed these decisions as quickly as he can except perhaps due to how MANY messes Trump has made to clean up is a HUGE volume of issues to address. And again, its hard to say if we have truly chosen to back up to our original foreign policies or if they are still being re-evaluated before we do.

Trump went out of his way to initiate an arms race with Russia
Which you might do with a secret ally so as to justify the both of you increasing your forces before you join hands against the rest of the world.

and he made Europe pay for most of it (haha, Mexican wall reference) (Trump's NATO build up policy is very Russia hostile in case you're not aware)
I'm also aware that it destabilizes the European economy that has been happily paying to keep a higher standard of living for its people at the cost of less military since they can rely on us to provide the protection afforded by a military budget that swamps most of the rest of the top spending nations in the world combined. If he can cause some disturbances there, it benefits Russia tremendously.

he slammed sanctions on Russia that he easily could have vetoed if he was so in love with Russia as you seem to think he was (I'm basing this on more than this one post from you on the topic).
His veto power is limited to an extent - congress could and would have overridden it. It was to his favor to pretend to go along so as to negotiate for wins in other battles more personal to him, like staying above the law enough to keep us from unravelling the whole picture which we would have easily done if he wasn't able to obstruct the truth with an iron fist repeatedly.
Russia's relationship with the US only soured throughout Trumps presidency, not that it soured throughout most of Obamas presidency and now it's gonna sour throughout Biden's presidency.
Yeah, Putin's pretty frustrated that we don't give the figurehead as much authoritarian power as he has taken for himself and mocked Trump for allowing it to remain that way.

Bear in mind too, what is projected for the people to believe from RT and our media sources, is regardless, what these states and interests want us to believe. It's by understanding that there's a difference between truth in media and intent in media that one can read the reality between the lines.
 
Are you saying I'm ignorant for questioning the majority narrative in the west which is: "We are the good and they are the bad."
Reversing the angels and devils as you do, doesn't make it any better. I never said the US or UK were angels, far from it. I still have no idea of the basis on which you seem to think Russia's ongoing occupations in Ukraine and Georgia are no big deal, or somehow justified. The wall of text seemed to be about avoiding answering that question.
 
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