Calis learns how to play

[Calis]

Alright. Let's get started...

With respect to our teams civ I have chosen Portugal as mine as well. Also I think that migh give me a better idea of our plans in this game, so here are the settings for my game:



I checked the "no random events" button, as I just find them disturbing. All other options are standard. I also don't like the option of balanced resources, although it might be considered unfair at time, but actually it makes things more interesting when you have to trade (or conquer ) to get missing resources.

I regenerated the map a few times, as I wanted a coastal capital for Portugal. Now here is the starting location:



Due to the cattle and pigs, I decided to beeline for Animal Husbandry to make best use of them soon.



I decided to go for a work boat first, as it will take 28 turns in total to research Agriculture & AH and the worker production could be faster once I have the additional food from the clams.

Now that's all for now.

During all my play all kins of comments are welcome of course. I am doing this to learn more about the game. I just would like to point out that just say, that is crap and this is nonsense won't help me much. Please advise me how to do better, when you are thinking I am doing wrong. Got that, oyzar?

 

[oyzar]

Going for AH through hunting is faster, it'll take 10 turns to make the WB then 13 turns to make the worker. If you grow to 2 before building the worker it'll take 4 turns to grow then 10 turns to build a worker(You trade 1 worker turn=3 food + 2 hammers + 1 food just by the pasture resources(more as times go by) vs 12 commerce(=beakers since you won't get prereq mods on them) and 12 hammers; probably growing first is better), or you can invest a turn into the worker(4 hammers) then grow in 3 turns, then build the worker in 10 turns. Since food is more useful than hammers it is probably better to grow to size 2 before building the worker rather than dump the hammers into the worker then grow. Notice that your estimate is quite a bit off since you'll research hunting with 1 prereq no matter and you'll get more commerce from the WB(so you'll get it before the worker at least with hunting, not sure about with AG, don't know your exact tech costs). If you can get AH with AG instead of hunting in time(calc it, remember 20% prereqbonus(+2 beakers) when researching AH) for the worker, then go that way as AG is a way more useful tech than hunting most of the time. After AH, going for BW seems best given all the forests in your BFC. With all these forests building a second worker at size 3 might be good(you get +1 hammer from expansive working pigs + silk(or cows after you improve them) + clams. And it can then start chopping sooner than if you waited until size 4-5 to build it.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

that is crap and this is nonsense won't help me much. Please advise me how to do better, when you are thinking I am doing wrong. Got that, oyzar?

To help you with this, I'll go first about nonsense .
I would go with BW (lot of forests), building a WB working the pigs then the 1F2H1C silk. Perhaps a second one then and a worker whip once BW comes in...
That's for the start...
I see you set the level at prince... Do you feel challenged at this difficulty? If so, You should update us on your general strategy: what techs do you feel as important, when , and why; REX strategy, diplo handling, and more importantly, how you think you will win the game. Also give us your unit count at various stage of the game: how many workers, troops. I think at this level global strat is far more important than micro, that's why I am saying that...

@Oyzar: I think it's perhaps too much details for a start ... no? I will prolly get it all in few minutes

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

PS: where are our pics?

 

[oyzar]

I seriously disagree with you there ras. This start got two AH resources, there is no way BW can keep up with improving pigs and cows 20 turns earlier than it would otherwise(every turn slower starting on that is 6 less yeild given, after 4 turns that catch up to one chop and 7 turns it catch up to two chops... Even if you just count 2 extra yeild per(you can always mine and/or get clams) it will still catch up after 5 and 10 turns, making it crazy not to improve them asap).

Also growing first like you suggests grow the city after 11 turns and give the wb after 13 turns. The worker should then be ready 11 turns later. This gives worker the same turn as my option(after 24 turns) but it gives 5 less hammers into a warrior and less commerce.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Also growing first like you suggests grow the city after 11 turns and give the wb after 13 turns. The worker should then be ready 11 turns later. This gives worker the same turn as my option(after 24 turns) but it gives 5 less hammers into a warrior and less commerce.

Yeah that's right... on another hand, you can start chopping faster and make the copper check faster too (well, not too usefull on prince, but one have to take good habit early )... I will perhaps play the start later (if Calis shares the initial save), both way, to see how it works.

 

[Calis]

No problem. Here is the save for now...

I will play on and comment on my plans later this evening...

 

[Calis]

By the way. I selected the Epic game, because in the normal game I had the impression that the tech pace gets so quick sometimes that once you built a unit it's already obsolete. So I prefer the slower version, though the start is a little bit slow-going.

On turn 15 the workboat completed and was sent to the clams immediately to start supply on turn 16:



I set production to warrior to wait that Lisbon grows to size 2.

On turn 19 Buddhism was founded somewhere:



On turn 20 (current turn) Lisbon grew to size 2. I switched production to a worker which would complete in 15 turns:



This us an overview over the region, I scouted so far. My warrior popped one hut for some gold and a second one for experience. I promoted him to woodsman two, as this gives him quick movement over forrest/jungle tiles plus the extra defense:



Right after finishing Animal Husbandry, I will go for Bronze working, as the many forrests are good for a bunch of chops (as Ras mentioned ):



That's it for today...now I am off for a walk with my little son, who is not very interested in sleep at times

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I haven't much time now (so will likely post again tomorow ), but your growing time seems to be a little slower than what Oyzar predicted (what have you done )... unless i got it wrong...

But a small tip: when you build something to let the city grow, with the idea of finishing it later (the warrior in this case), you have to take into account "hammer decay".
Hammers are stored for an amout of time, and then start to decay if you don't finish the build. You have 10 turns for unit, 50 for buildings, for ALL speeds (who said marathon was easier ). This means that if you don't whip your worker (and you won't be able prolly), you will loose some, if not most of the hammers invested in the warrior, as the worker takes 15 turns to complete. To avoid that early on, you can put the hammers in a barrack, or SH if you start with mysticism (that solution gives gold when you fail to complete the wonder) for instance.

Obviously, even if I bored you with it, this won't have much influence for your game . But it's something you want to keep in mind for higher levels

About the map: rice/fish site looks amazing... you need to scout a bit more to not miss a third food resource, but south west of the rice makes for a very powerfull early city already. The desert tile north west of the eastern rice would be another strong city, production wise (food and hills). 2 things to note: you don't want to expand too far south before IW (and plenty of workers), still no early happy resources (monarchy, monarchy! or calendar...)...

Also, it would be nice to add your save after your round ...

Cheers,
Ras

 

[Calis]

Well, I didn't know about the "hammer decay" actually! Good to know.

As for some earlier questions:

1. Prince difficulty: Honestly, I do not know whther it will challenge me, as I didn't finish many games in Civ4 so far. Probably it's going to be easy, but we'll see.
2. Victory condition: As I wanted to get familiar with as many things as possible I thought about a space victory, after conquering my own continent.

@oyzar: Actually I just wrote the wrong. the order of my first research was Hunting and AH, as you suggested.

As for being slower than oyzar predicted, maybe he didn't consider that I am playing epic

I'll post the saves after my set of turns from now on....

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

^^ Haha, I missed it too (epic speed)... good luck for next set

 

[oyzar]

Yeah i didn't consider epic, good going so far, too bad about the hammers into the warrior getting decayed, but better than getting the worker slower. Link to the actual images and not just thumbnails and it'll be waaay easier to follow what you are doing. With the rice having jungle on two sides there is a real chance that jungle will grow over it. You are not creative, so unlike ras i am not THAT thrilled by that site, it is more than decent, but it isn't the best ever. With stone nearby you should hook that up at some point in the not too far future. You got decent amount of food so mids might be an alternative, and there is always henge/gw/hg.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

What site do you recommend? somewhere near the spice?
Agreed about the pics...

 

[oyzar]

There isn't actually any other better site nearby right now, near the spice doesn't have much food(unless there is one hidden in the shadow) and those floods might be a bit far away, so as of now the fish + rice city is probably best.

 

[Calis]

In 3175 BC Hinduism was founded somewhere in the world:



My worker was completed in 3175 BC:

I sent him to the pigs as the pasture gains me 3 food over 1 food and 2 shields of the cattle.



In the meantime I got a scout from a hut, which is very nice for faster exploration. Furthermore he got experience from another hut and is now at woodsman III.

I am one turn away from Bronze working. My further path is not decided, yet. Eithr I will beeline to Priesthood for the Oracle, Or I do the Wheel before that, as Animal husbandry uncovered some horses to my north:



I marked potential city sites to my north and to my south:





This Lisbon on turn 40:



And an overview of the scouted region:



Also I attached the latest two save files...

 

[Calis]

Played another 20 turns:

Met several other civs:







These are my units right now:



An overview of the scouted region. Copper is nott too far away and Persia has none nearby:



And Lisbon, now size 5:

 

[oyzar]

Post questions if you have any. Rex away! Post a dotmap with numbers and it is easier to comment.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi ,

sorry for replying late... What is your plan? You must want to do something like settler -> Oracle at this point... to be honnest I wonder why the Oracle... you haven't any gold/gem/silver to speed up the early teching (making a detour by PH, a tech that AIs loves, has an opportunity cost), you aren't ind, you haven't marble... don't get me wrong... it will prolly work here because abundant wood and prince, but it is not the most logical thing to do (and it won't work in harder levels)...
As Oyzar, I think REX is in order (now or after the Oracle), together with pot (cottages/granaries) and writing (OBs, library). Other option is to plan on a war with Darius (axes/chariots, or axes/cats) ...
More importantly, try to figure out who will be your tech partners and who will be your land provider (I suggested Darius, but you prolly have a better idea of the situation) and act accordingly .

Cheers,
Raskolnikov