Calling all CE enthusiasts

[Civman123]

I disagree. You can have a great GP farm based on both wonders and a few specialists (targeted for the type of GP you want, especially engineers), that also churns out great science.

Typically when I'm about ready to go from Bureaucracy to free speech (and about when scientific method has killed off the great library) I'm ready to have my capital continue to be my GP farm, and shift the science focus to a pure commerce/cottage city, where I'll build Oxford. I'll often build a new palace in this new commerce city (usually not for the bureaucracy bonus, as I've left it behind, but to have the palace commerce bonus applied in my Oxford city).

Either way it shouldn't be a rule as you never know what could be helpful in the game. If it puts you at a disadvantage so be it.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I won't be able to participate in this, but I'm definitely interested in seeing how this plays out.

My 2:

Either way it shouldn't be a rule as you never know what could be helpful in the game. If it puts you at a disadvantage so be it.

I think only the // cities should be allowed to assign specialists. Period.

I know this can put a clamp on the game, but I can't see any of us learning anything if this turns out to be just another SE-to-CE Transitioning Hybrid.

Personally, I haven't played a strict CE in a long time. Even with Financial leaders, I find the first half of my games running a quasi-SE until Liberalism -- at which point I all my Specialists for quick Universities/Oxford and Cottage over every plausible farmland.

If this is a strict "how to run a CE the whole game" thread, then I might figure out why my early CE's turn out to be more like Slum Economies.

 

[DaveMcW]

Whipping is rarely helpful in cottage cities.

Only whip them for the good of the empire (mobilize for war, build Oxford).

 

[frob2900]

Whipping is rarely helpful in cottage cities.

Only whip them for the good of the empire (mobilize for war, build Oxford).

But given the very valuable nature of grassland tiles for futher cottages and that fact that these tiles are occupied by AIs; doesn't this lead to a rather large incentive to whip in any case?

Or do you avoid war after the catapult age? (I've never tried this strategy, but given a large enough initial empire I suppose it might be perfectly valid).

 

[Dirk1302]

@DaveMcW, some cities can be whipped because they have surplus food resources. I often whip the capital to build infra also under CE, it usually grows back fast enough anyway. For an optimal economy i would always plant some farms if food resources are scarce, not to run specialists but to allow the city to grow in a decent tempo.

 

[DaveMcW]

@frob2900, I just said that whipping for war is ok.

@Dirk1302, When you have a LOT of cottages and no hammers, whipping can help more than working another cottage. But this takes a while to happen in the capital, and much longer in any other city.

 

[svv]

I play cottages, and I'm still from the "whip when you can" rather than the "whip when you have to" school. It's kind of nice to have a guy working on a cottage until you're ready for your whip. Sure it will take some time to get him back again, but I'm sure you come out ahead, in both hammers and commerce by having the guy working cottage/gone/working cottage again, instead of, say, working a workshop or a mine the whole time.

 

[futurehermit]

DaveMcW, are you going to play this game? I think it would be great if you would. I'd like to see how you go about your early-to-mid game.

@ people who use capital for gpfarm: I guess when I mean gpfarm I mean ***gpfarm***

I'm not talking about running a couple specialists + wonders to generate the odd gp. I'm talking about working MAXIMUM specialists--as many as humanly possible--to ***churn out*** gp as fast as possible.

THAT is why I don't make capital gpfarm because I want it working commerce and production tiles to benefit from ***early*** bureaucracy.

 

[Orion071]

I'd like to try this as well. I almost always run a CE to a spaceship launch and I'm very comfortable at Monarch. I'm pretty generous with the whipping though, if a city has the extra food and no production, how else can it get any buildings?

 

[futurehermit]

High food and low hammers always means whipping to me. Although DaveMcW has said a few times that only a granary is necessary in a commerce/cottage city and then from there max growth + working as many cottages as possible is the way to go. I would imagine at the health cap you could whip additional science/gold buildings.

 

[Florian]

I don't know if I have BetterAI or not. I did download a big patch a while ago though. Is it part of a larger patch?

 

[frob2900]

Whipping is rarely helpful in cottage cities.

It was the rarely part that threw me. As I see it this game is wired so that war and preparation for it is anything but rare.

 

[Sjaramei]

Ok, figured your point out. Will be interesting to see how much effect those few extra GP will have on your game (maybe i should consider this more often... )

 

[frob2900]

High food and low hammers always means whipping to me. Although DaveMcW has said a few times that only a granary is necessary in a commerce/cottage city and then from there max growth + working as many cottages as possible is the way to go. I would imagine at the health cap you could whip additional science/gold buildings.

From my experience, cottage growing (in pure cottage cities, i.e. the ones you get the feeling that will not amount to much food/hammer wise) is better than whipping in most cases. For me at least (and I am admittedly no elite player) a CE gets its wings around the time where you get democracy and can start rush buying (I'm assuming you don't have pyramids).

You can just buy all those buildings, and with the gpt your cottages are earning its just about 20 turns to upgrade all your core cities to any buildings you desire. Those worked cottages will then pay infinately more than the buildings you would have whipped earlier, since you just got the buildings essentially "gratis" (in the sense that it didn't affect the city negatively in any way).

As I see it the +25% research/gold for library/market, is decisively important only after gettings many towns+Free Speech+PP, rather than in a city with a bunch of hamlets.

If you have a great local surplus of heavy food like pigs/corn, you can when necessary just plant your cities so they can share them at BFC corners.

The democracy buying spree occurs around 1100-1200 AD for me but it's very possible more skilled players get this effect around 1000 AD or even earlier.

I'm also subconsciously thinking about the isolated/semi-isolated CE I always tend to end up for some reason. On tighter games, with aggressive neighbors I do use the whip extensively to get barracks/forges/units/culture spread.

I would, however, guess that the "only a granary" maxim is slight hyperbole. courthouses are nice and there usually are enough forests to support them.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

For whipping, I tend to whip a lot early on - before I have Monarchy and my cities keep outrunning their happiness cap. Which pretty much makes the CE/SE fairly similar in very early war.

My rule with cottage cities after that is pretty much to only which when they have exceeded their happy/health caps - usually by a couple of points so you are really whipping unproductive citizens off. Or when I've worked all the cottages I can and I am whipping citizens off mines.

With financial I don't think you will have very much incentive at all to put specialists in your capital, so that won't be a problem. I like getting pottery very early with financial - in the first three techs. On Monarch you have time to rush pottery first, then go bronzeworking and still catch up with AH/IronWorking or archery if you miss copper before you will be plagued by barbarians. Getting three early cottages going for +9 research in the early game is huge. The main exception to this would be if I had fish - since you can get the +3 science from them too AND lots of food so early cottages aren't so urgent.

I don't know if I will be able to shadow the game - but I'll definitely keep an eye on the thread and contribute. Fortunately my second attempt with Victoria is going much better - Mansa has built Versailles just in time for my Cavalry to visit.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

If you have a great local surplus of heavy food like pigs/corn, you can when necessary just plant your cities so they can share them at BFC corners.

I do this a lot too - I like early cities that are close to my capital - it makes them easy to defend and they work cottages for the capital when the capital has reached its happy cap and whipped off something. I hate to leave good tiles unworked.

 

[Morgrad]

For my CEs, I use the whip quickly for a granary, and then only when the happy cap is broken through (or when needed, of course).

In order to get Oxford or Globe built quickly, I might slap a couple citizens to churn out some universities/theatres if I deem it necessary.

I always try to build a barracks in my cottage cities when it has nothing else to do, 'cause then it can always build units when it has nothing else to do later. I've found that building Research is really sub-par compared to building units if you're dealing with a weak production city, anyway.

 

[Jeff1787]

I will definitely be following this thread!!

 

[futurehermit]

I'll try and post a start tonight guys. I'm pretty busy the next 7-10 days, but let's say the first checkpoint (2000BC) should be in by next Sat night or so (1 week).

Edit: Don't forget to post your updates using ***spoiler*** tags. If you don't know how to do this, it's in the "go advanced" screen, there is a button at the top of this screen to use spoiler tags.

 

[Phrederick]

I'll probably try this out too, although I'm not sure how I feel about all these "purist" rules. I'll aim for getting the bulk of my research from commerce, with 1-2 cities popping great people. I"ll probably have to curb my aggression so I don't just conquer the entire world before 1000ad.