Camps

[ezzlar]

I like the Tribal leader idea. Then there should be some different ones like:

- Native American Tribal leader. Producing braves
- Gallic Tribal leader. Producing axes/swords.
- Some plains tribe leader for mongolian area until they spawn.

Should there be modern ones?

- Resurgent tribal leader
- Terrorist tribal leader
- Independence tribal leader

And why not some connected to choice of civics:

- Slave rebellion tribal leader
- Religious movement tribal leader
- Paramilitary tribal leader
- Worker unrest tribal leader

And then we have:

- Resistance fighter tribal leader
- Covert ops tribal leader
- Junta tribal leader

Well. I had fun. Back to work

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, but such a relationship could just as well be implicit.

I mean, the current situation is that in region X we spawn units Y for a specific number of turns Z. The first step should be to translate the old mechanic to the new one (although that doesn't necessarily need to happen for all spawns).

In my opinion that means that in region X a leader/camp will appear spawning units Y (and if it's a leader then the leader will also be of type Y) as long as it exists, with an automatic despawn after Z turns.

 

[merijn_v1]

The way I have coded it right now is:

In region X, each camp has an Y% chance to spawn unit Z until it is destroyed. After destruction of the camp, there is an S% chance each turn it will reappear.
The max number of camps that can exist increases over time.

 

[ezzlar]

Yeah, but such a relationship could just as well be implicit.

I mean, the current situation is that in region X we spawn units Y for a specific number of turns Z. The first step should be to translate the old mechanic to the new one (although that doesn't necessarily need to happen for all spawns).

In my opinion that means that in region X a leader/camp will appear spawning units Y (and if it's a leader then the leader will also be of type Y) as long as it exists, with an automatic despawn after Z turns.

But will that mean that the spawned troops are always the same in the same era?

Is it possible that in region X, between turns Z-Y, camp T will spawn and then produce unit S for K turns before despawning? And type 2 is then different?

And then some combinations like I wrote, if running slavery and a revolt occurs spawn camp F producing R number of B units?

 

[Leoreth]

The point I was making is that barbarian spawns should still mostly be 1-2 unit types, regardless of whether a camp or leader unit is used. Then if the leader approach is used, the leader should be a one of these unit types. This way there is no problem with tech level scaling, because the leader strength will always be proportional to the units associated with this spawn.

You can of course apply this to all sorts of different barbarian spawn scenarios, although I am not sure what your letter soup is supposed to be communicating

Two further points:
- talking about barbarian leaders reminds me of the leader unit from Civ2, where you got gold for defeating it. My entire economy was usually centered around capturing these leaders (which was hard because in Civ2 entire stacks could be killed as collateral, and you didn't get the gold if the leader was among the collateral damage).
- maybe camps and leaders should both exist. The former could represent not necessarily hostile stateless semi-sedentary or nomadic-pastoral cultures and the latter more aggressive migratory groups. Think Native American settlements vs Attila the Hun. Actually, both might be represented using elements already present in the mod, tribal villages and the leader promotions, respectively.

 

[ezzlar]

Maybe the camps all should be Native and not Barbarian. The free wins when fighting barbs would give huge boost to exp or just make them overly simple when your archer destroys them when they are fortified on hills in that forest across the river.

Can you make the goody huts camps instead? Defeating them gives the hut reward?

 

[calad]

There necessarily has to be.

Another solution I was thinking about is implementing it as a promotion or even like a leading GG. In that case the name should probably change from "Camp" to "Tribal Leader" or something. Then the strength could just be a modifier on a base unit, making it easier to scale with era.

This would make barbarians much more historical and realistic if made correctly and polished. I just hate out of nowhere popping up barbarian hordes.

 

[Leoreth]

Can you make the goody huts camps instead? Defeating them gives the hut reward?

There's not much of a difference between the concepts already.

 

[calad]

So we could have Attila the Hun and Vercingetorix bringing destruction upon Rome? Would this mean normal barbarians would not exist, would not be so dominating or both systems would co-exist?

 

[Leoreth]

No idea really. I can never make these kinds of decisions before I go down to implementation.

 

[merijn_v1]

Please do note that this modcomp is only about the camp. (It should get a better name however, I just borrowed the name from the Ghengis Khan mod in Warlords)

My idea is to have a sortof dynamical barb spawning plot. The barbarian leader unit is a different thing. (Although this will be a nice addition for later.)

@ Ezzlar
Ofcourse the camps will be native. Or to be more precise, the ones in North America. I'm planning to create something similar for Rome, which will be barbs ofcourse.

 

[merijn_v1]

Uploaded a test version. It works for SVN rev 842. Don't know if it balanced is any good. Please give feedback if you want to try/test it.

Current setup (summary):
After 1000AD, there is a 20% chance that a camp unit can spawn in North America.
Each turn, each camp has a 20% chance to produce an unit.
There can only exist a certain limit of camps at a time. (This limit will increase after certain events)
Camps will get stronger over time.
Destroying camps is the only way to stop them spawning units. But beware, they will reappear.

 

[calad]

Post screens please.

 

[merijn_v1]

Of what? A screenshot of the new camp unit in the pedia is just plain boring and unnecessary. Otherwise it's just a change in the code. I can give you a screenshot of that, but I don't think you really want to see that.

 

[calad]

How bad lobbying.

 

[yurisusuki]

I like the Tribal leader idea. Then there should be some different ones like:

- Native American Tribal leader. Producing braves
- Gallic Tribal leader. Producing axes/swords.
- Some plains tribe leader for mongolian area until they spawn.

Should there be modern ones?

- Resurgent tribal leader
- Terrorist tribal leader
- Independence tribal leader

And why not some connected to choice of civics:

- Slave rebellion tribal leader
- Religious movement tribal leader
- Paramilitary tribal leader
- Worker unrest tribal leader

And then we have:

- Resistance fighter tribal leader
- Covert ops tribal leader
- Junta tribal leader


Pretty nice idea, this could make the modern era much more fun

In the Gengis Khan Warlords mod, the unit produced by the camp depend of the terrain, so maybe each type of camp or tribal leader could produce a specific number of units, based on each type of terrain, for example: in hills archers units, in plains mounted units

 

[calad]

Spartacus would be awsome. I see this has plenty of potential.

 

[ezzlar]

Lets not forget the Dirty bomb tribal leader. Each turn there is a 0,5% risk that an ICBM will be spawned and used against nations they are at war with. The problem is they only spawn in hilly areas around Afghanistan. Fortified. Double hill promo.