OTAKUjbski
TK421
I've been playing games since before Windows was even a concept.
The first game I ever played was 'Warmonger', an RTS-type game whose goal was to conquer a series of islands and thus control the world. (Good luck finding ANY info on it, though.) Next was Civilization.
In the 17 years since Warmonger and Civilization (DOS) were released, AI programming has come a LONG way. However, one fundamental element of difficulty settings remains the same:
More difficult AI == gets to cheat + more freebies
We all know what I'm talking about. On difficulty settings above Noble, the AI doesn't get any smarter. Instead, it gets free units & techs, building & research discounts, health & happiness bonuses, etc.
It's not better ... it's just bigger.
I can compare this to a number of IRL scenarios where this philosophy makes absolutely no sense and even seems outright stupid:
Chess is about the only game a computer can accurately portray a 'better' opponent, because the best players are the ones who can see the most moves ahead in order to choose the one right now most likely to result in a victory -- not the ones who get two Queens or 4 Knights (which never happens).
So why can't Firaxis get it right?
I can't say I've ever seen the AI do anything 'better' in any of my CivIV games. They just do it faster and for cheaper.
There are strategies, tricks, all kinds of stuff we use to determine what to do and when to do it.
Does the AI know how to best use an Oracle or Liberalism slingshot? If the AI's taking Sid's suggestions (adviser recommendations), then I can guarantee they don't.
Likewise, based on the blue circle and highlight suggestions of Workers and Settlers and comparing those against what the AI will do when controlling an automated worker, I can also assure you they're clueless on how best to improve tiles. Why do they always seem to start with the worst tiles?
I would also argue the AI has no real concept of chop-rushing, because -- again -- automated workers are seemingly mindless and will chop down forests regardless of what the current build is.
This list goes on and on and on, and I think nearly everyone could probably add multiple examples of when the AI completely took a wrong turn.
How do we make it better?
BetterAI was a giant step in the right direction, but it still just doesn't feel like enough ... not until the cheating can be eliminated, imho.
I'm not a programmer, so I'm not too keen on what tricks there might be for making AI's more 'strategic'. Otherwise, I'd probably be working on BetterAI++ or something.
The only suggestion that seems to make sense to me is to teach the computer better strategies and how to think ahead more.
I definitely don't agree with giving the AI information they shouldn't have (info I wouldn't have in the same situation). But how many times have you been able to take all the puzzle pieces and figure out what most likely is going on?
Advanced players are able to deduce facts they cannot know just based on other information.
For example, if I'm isolated on an island without Astronomy, then I know anybody I can trade with has Astronomy, and those who can't don't. Thus, I can conclude a spike in the Power graph probably does not mean an attack on me.
In the same scenario, if I can only see my own island, all I have to do is check the Relations window to see who has Open Borders and border tension (our close borders ...) to see roughly who's next to whom in the blackness of the globe.
Similarly, if I'm founding a new city and know I'll be chop-rushing a Courthouse, I usually send in 2 or 3 workers to start pre-chopping before the Settler arrives. Then on the last turn of the chopping, I found the city and BAM ... all the hammers drop on my new city on turn 1 -- thus drastically reducing its immediate and lasting impact on my economy.
The AI also doesn't seem to understand the concept of city and economy specialization, either. Some of their cities have the most random improvements. In some games I've used the World Builder to duplicate their city sites just so I can see what's going on inside ... sometimes I realize it's impossible to run the size city they're running at all. They're just getting free stuff from somewhere to keep the city big.
In closing...
This has been one of my longest posts ever about one of my biggest peeves ever.
I hope I'm not alone.
Hopefully, I'll hear some constructive criticism as to why this isn't possible or how to make it possible.
Who knows? Maybe Firaxis will include some of our ideas in CivV ... no much telling, eh?
The first game I ever played was 'Warmonger', an RTS-type game whose goal was to conquer a series of islands and thus control the world. (Good luck finding ANY info on it, though.) Next was Civilization.

In the 17 years since Warmonger and Civilization (DOS) were released, AI programming has come a LONG way. However, one fundamental element of difficulty settings remains the same:
More difficult AI == gets to cheat + more freebies
We all know what I'm talking about. On difficulty settings above Noble, the AI doesn't get any smarter. Instead, it gets free units & techs, building & research discounts, health & happiness bonuses, etc.
It's not better ... it's just bigger.
I can compare this to a number of IRL scenarios where this philosophy makes absolutely no sense and even seems outright stupid:
- What if at the end of the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens, they would've told Yan Bhartelemy Varela he needed a more difficult opponent than Atagün Yalçınkaya and so replaced Yalçınkaya with Alexander Povetkin -- a super heavyweight boxer nearly twice his size?
- Or maybe in that same year we give David Williams an extra Ace to best the two 8's Greg Raymer, winner of the 2004 World Series of Poker, was holding in that last hand to 'challenge him more'.
- Even better ... let's see if Kurt Busch, 2004 Nascar Champion, can still win if his car is loaded down with Bricks.
Chess is about the only game a computer can accurately portray a 'better' opponent, because the best players are the ones who can see the most moves ahead in order to choose the one right now most likely to result in a victory -- not the ones who get two Queens or 4 Knights (which never happens).
So why can't Firaxis get it right?
I can't say I've ever seen the AI do anything 'better' in any of my CivIV games. They just do it faster and for cheaper.
There are strategies, tricks, all kinds of stuff we use to determine what to do and when to do it.
Does the AI know how to best use an Oracle or Liberalism slingshot? If the AI's taking Sid's suggestions (adviser recommendations), then I can guarantee they don't.
Likewise, based on the blue circle and highlight suggestions of Workers and Settlers and comparing those against what the AI will do when controlling an automated worker, I can also assure you they're clueless on how best to improve tiles. Why do they always seem to start with the worst tiles?
I would also argue the AI has no real concept of chop-rushing, because -- again -- automated workers are seemingly mindless and will chop down forests regardless of what the current build is.
This list goes on and on and on, and I think nearly everyone could probably add multiple examples of when the AI completely took a wrong turn.
How do we make it better?
BetterAI was a giant step in the right direction, but it still just doesn't feel like enough ... not until the cheating can be eliminated, imho.
I'm not a programmer, so I'm not too keen on what tricks there might be for making AI's more 'strategic'. Otherwise, I'd probably be working on BetterAI++ or something.
The only suggestion that seems to make sense to me is to teach the computer better strategies and how to think ahead more.
I definitely don't agree with giving the AI information they shouldn't have (info I wouldn't have in the same situation). But how many times have you been able to take all the puzzle pieces and figure out what most likely is going on?
Advanced players are able to deduce facts they cannot know just based on other information.
For example, if I'm isolated on an island without Astronomy, then I know anybody I can trade with has Astronomy, and those who can't don't. Thus, I can conclude a spike in the Power graph probably does not mean an attack on me.
In the same scenario, if I can only see my own island, all I have to do is check the Relations window to see who has Open Borders and border tension (our close borders ...) to see roughly who's next to whom in the blackness of the globe.
Similarly, if I'm founding a new city and know I'll be chop-rushing a Courthouse, I usually send in 2 or 3 workers to start pre-chopping before the Settler arrives. Then on the last turn of the chopping, I found the city and BAM ... all the hammers drop on my new city on turn 1 -- thus drastically reducing its immediate and lasting impact on my economy.
The AI also doesn't seem to understand the concept of city and economy specialization, either. Some of their cities have the most random improvements. In some games I've used the World Builder to duplicate their city sites just so I can see what's going on inside ... sometimes I realize it's impossible to run the size city they're running at all. They're just getting free stuff from somewhere to keep the city big.
In closing...
This has been one of my longest posts ever about one of my biggest peeves ever.
I hope I'm not alone.
Hopefully, I'll hear some constructive criticism as to why this isn't possible or how to make it possible.
Who knows? Maybe Firaxis will include some of our ideas in CivV ... no much telling, eh?