Can forests spread to fur/deer?

[LincolnOfRome]

I've seen jungles spread to resources like rice and gems, but I've never seen forests spread. Is forest spread to resources possible. Has anyone seen it?

 

[Manco Capac]

It's possible. As long there is no improvement there yet. If roads, odds are halved.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Thanks

Follow up: Forest preserves seem to influence spread. How much?

 

[6K Man]

I've had jungles spread to Gems countless times, but have never once had a forest spread to a resource, let alone to a resource that would actually benefit from the forest.

So I'm going to go ahead and say that it never happens.

edit: I think Preserves double the chance of spreading forests. And the spread chance also increases if there are multiple forests bordering the unforested tile... so, chop in a checkerboard pattern.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I ran a test for quite a while using worldbuilder while I completed a game at a lower level. I filled the map with resources surrounded by forest preserves at 4000 BC until the end of the game around 1600 AD, when I won the game. None of the resources started out with forests. I did not build roads or camps on any of the resources.

Spoiler :

Resource --- Number --- #Spread
Tundra Deer ------3 ------ 2
Tundra Beaver ------ 3 ------ 3
Plains Deer ------ 1 ------ 0
Plains Beaver ------ 2 ------ 0
Grass Deer ------ 1 ------ 0
Grass Beaver ------ 1 ------ 0
Grass Elephant ------ 3 ------ 0

Yes, forests did spread, but only to tundra deer and beaver. Out of the six tundra resources, forests spread to five out of six. No forests spread to non-tundra resources. Anyone want to try to duplicate my test? Elephants with forests would rock, but I've never seen it.

 

[elitetroops]

I don't think forest would spread to a resource where it wouldn't naturally appear according to the map script. So no PF/GF deers on regular scripts. Jungle can appear on most resources in that area and jungle is also twice as likely to spread as forests, which might be the reason that you've seen so much more of that.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I don't think forest would spread to a resource where it wouldn't naturally appear according to the map script. So no PF/GF deers on regular scripts. Jungle can appear on most resources in that area and jungle is also twice as likely to spread as forests, which might be the reason that you've seen so much more of that.

I was thinking that as well. On the most map scripts you only see tundra deer and beaver. Still, non-tundra beaver and deer do appear in the capital's BFC, and in other map scripts such as jungle.

 

[Tatran]

Forests will also spread to plains fur, plains deer, silk, spices and maybe uranium. (those resources must not have improvements)

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Spoiler Spoilered because it seems to be wrong :

a Forest can grow on a Camped square

Obviously, while your Worker is busy Camping a Tundra Deer non-Forest square or a Tundra Fur non-Forest square, no Forest can grow on that square during those turns, as a Forest won't grow when a unit is on a square (including a Worker being on said square).

But, it's nice to know that you don't necessarily have to "wait" for an adjacent Forest to spread before setting up your Camp.

If you build both a Camp and a Road, though, you'll halve the chances of nearby Forests growing onto said square due to the presence of the Road, so unless you need that Resource hooked up ASAP, you can consider delaying the Road (and not ever build a Road on that square if the Resource is on a River).

A Jungle can also grow onto a Camped Ivory square, so it can be worth your while to build a Road on said square (to halve the chances of a Jungle growing to said square) or to Chop the adjacent Jungles.

I think that Camps are the exceptional Improvement type in that all other Improvement types will block Forests and Jungles growing onto the improved square. (Roads and Railroads are technically not classified as "Improvements" but instead are classified as "Routes.")

Also, an interesting point worth noting: when you end up with a Tundra Deer Riv For or Tundra Fur Riv For square, it can be worth it to Chop the Forest. A Camped Forest will not spawn new Forests. A Forested Riverside square will not give you 1 Commerce for the River (a Lumbermill placed on that Forest will give you the River's Commerce, but a Camp won't). So, you can get the one-time boost of Hammers for Chopping the Forest while simply trading the 1 Hammer per turn from the Forest for 1 Commerce per turn from the River.

Of course, if you want to maximize overall Hammer output, you can also delay the Forest Chop until near the end of the game, when there are less turns in the game remaining than the number of Hammers that you would earn from Chopping the Forest.

I don't think forest would spread to a resource where it wouldn't naturally appear according to the map script. So no PF/GF deers on regular scripts.

The info about whether a given type of Terrain + a Resource + a Forest combination being "valid" or not on a map having an effect on Forest growth is a neat idea.

Does that mean that on map types where a Grassland Deer Forest square is a valid combination, Grassland Deer non-Forested squares can have Forests grow onto them, such as on an Arboreal map type?

 

[MyOtherName]

Are you sure a forest can spawn on a camp? I don't think I've ever seen that happen in game.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Actually, no, I am not sure anymore. I set up a test game on an Ice_Age map and couldn't get a Forest to spread on Tundra Deer Camps, Tundra Fur Camps, Grassland Deer Camps, or Grassland Fur Camps. I also couldn't get a Jungle to spread on Grassland Ivory Camps. I could have sworn I'd seen it before and my previous quote seems to indicate that I'd seem it in the past, but the evidence, at least for an Ice_Age map, seems to say that a Forest/Jungle won't grow on a Camped square.

 

[Macksideshow]

I can't remember a forest ever spreading to a camp. I love a forested plains deer tile but someone said they weren't allowed under most map scripts? I do remember getting one though. Anyone have details of which map scripts allow them?

 

[Thrar]

I generated several huge Fractal maps and looked at them in WB:
On Fractal, plains deer (forested or not) can only exist in a starting BFC. Some of those are forested. As MyOtherName suspected, deer originally seems to spawn only on tundra, which gets turned to plains by the normalizer if inside a starting BFC.

Unfortunately that doesn't tell us much about whether or not forests can spread to unforested plains deer (which must be in a starting BFC, otherwise they'd be tundra deer). Perhaps we could set up a checkerboard pattern map with alternating unforested plains deer and forests, run it for a while and see if anything spreads?

My understanding is that forests and jungles can never spread to improved tiles, improved meaning with anything other than a road/railroad on them.

 

[MyOtherName]

I just generated a Fractal map and looked at it in WB:
On Fractal, forested plains deer can exist.

Was it in a capital's BFC? Normalization will turn tundra into plains, I believe. While I believe your claim is true, this variable should be accounted for anyways.

 

[Manco Capac]

^
True. No belief. Truth said.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Yes, non-tundra deer and beaver only seem to exist near the original settler locations for various civs. Forest doesn't seem to want to spread to these non-tundra deer and beaver (even in the capital's BFC). I think you are stuck with what you get. A forested plains deer or beaver is a nice and rare tile.

 

[Thrar]

Was it in a capital's BFC? Normalization will turn tundra into plains, I believe. While I believe your claim is true, this variable should be accounted for anyways.

You're right actually, it was. In fact, I went back and looked at several more huge Fractal maps and all instances of deer I found were either in tundra or in a starting location's BFC.
I updated my earlier post.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Unfortunately that doesn't tell us much about whether or not forests can spread to unforested plains deer (which must be in a starting BFC, otherwise they'd be tundra deer). Perhaps we could set up a checkerboard pattern map with alternating unforested plains deer and forests, run it for a while and see if anything spreads?

I have already run this test. The unforested plains deer and beaver in my experiment above was in the capital's BFC. I did not have forest spread to it. I even went in mapbuilder and surriounded these two resources with forest preserves at 4000 BC.

Of course, please confirm my test.

 

[Macksideshow]

I generated several huge Fractal maps and looked at them in WB:
On Fractal, plains deer (forested or not) can only exist in a starting BFC. Some of those are forested. As MyOtherName suspected, deer originally seems to spawn only on tundra, which gets turned to plains by the normalizer if inside a starting BFC.

Unfortunately that doesn't tell us much about whether or not forests can spread to unforested plains deer (which must be in a starting BFC, otherwise they'd be tundra deer). Perhaps we could set up a checkerboard pattern map with alternating unforested plains deer and forests, run it for a while and see if anything spreads?

My understanding is that forests and jungles can never spread to improved tiles, improved meaning with anything other than a road/railroad on them.

Thanks, I mainly play on Fractal so that would explain where I've seen them. Haven't seen one in a while though, I get a few plains deers with no forest, I hope to get another forested one soon.

 

[Ghpstage]

No forests can't grow on plains deer on normal map scripts.

The important lines;

void CvPlot::doFeature()
...
			if (getImprovementType() == NO_IMPROVEMENT)
...
						if ((getBonusType() == NO_BONUS) || (GC.getBonusInfo(getBonusType()).isFeature(iI)))

Saying that features can only spread if there are no improvements, and that there is either no feature currently, OR the feature is specifically allowed by the XML. The inteeresting bit in the XML entry on Deer is,

			<Type>BONUS_DEER</Type>
                        ..................
			<TerrainBooleans>
				<TerrainBoolean>
					<TerrainType>TERRAIN_TUNDRA</TerrainType>
					<bTerrain>1</bTerrain>
				</TerrainBoolean>
			</TerrainBooleans>
			<FeatureBooleans>
				<FeatureBoolean>
					<FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST</FeatureType>
					<bFeature>1</bFeature>
				</FeatureBoolean>
			</FeatureBooleans>
			<FeatureTerrainBooleans>
				<FeatureTerrainBoolean>
					<TerrainType>TERRAIN_TUNDRA</TerrainType>
					<bFeatureTerrain>1</bFeatureTerrain>
				</FeatureTerrainBoolean>
			</FeatureTerrainBooleans>

Which tells us the allowed terrain is tundra, and the only feature tiles allowed are forested tundra. The map normalizer ignores this to place plains tiles underneath forested/deer/tundra to crwate what is otherwise an illegal tile type.
The same applies to fur by the way, as it can usually only appear on tundra and snow.