Can I randomize terrain while preserving the coastline?

[Jesdisciple]

I have a map that I drew in Map Editor, and I like the general shape of the land masses. But most of them are pure grassland (the only exceptions being in the focal point of the scenario). Can I somehow have the several terrains randomly placed on that grassland?

Further, how might I include small, random coastal inlets and inland seas, just for the sake of giving character to the land and a few advantages (extra food and inland channels) to the civs? (I probably need to do this by hand, but I might as well ask.)

Is the best idea to generate a random map and carve the special shapes around its terrain?

 

[Mercator]

Well, first of all, I'd like to recommend CivMapGen. It's a random map generator that gives you much more control over what your random map will look like, and generates better random maps:
http://www.cix.co.uk/~spot/civmapgen/CivMapGen.htm

Your best bet would probably be to generate a map using that and then fine-tune it by hand.

If you'd really want to combine your hand-crafted map with random terrain from CivMapGen, you could use a combination of my own MapEdit and some image editing handiwork to combine the two together... I can explain that further, if you want.

 

[Jesdisciple]

The map in question is attached. You might need to change the extension to MP to open it; the board wouldn't accept it with that.

The center (where non-grassland land appears) is the only part I care about regarding which terrain fills any certain land space. Except for the general shape of land masses, it's also the only place where I care if any certain space is land or sea (unless putting land in place of sea would create a bridge).

And if necessary, I could change the terrain at the center back to what it is now if it must be randomized with the rest of the map.

I would really rather have my existing land squares randomized than impose my existing shapes on a new map, but I'm willing to do the latter if there's a good reason.

EDIT: Can CivMapGen or MapEdit make a solid land mass of random tiles (i.e., not having any prejudice toward ocean)? Using Windows Paint, I got the pattern for my map from the bitmap that MapEdit gave me. I can overlay that onto a completely random map, then edit the central tiles.

 

[Mercator]

Ah, I thought you had just created your own random-looking map, rather than a patterned one...

MapEdit can't generate random maps. CivMapGen can't (reliably) create an all-land map, but it can get damn close if you choose the right settings (~1% Ocean). So that's indeed what I was going for myself as well; superimposing your pattern on an (almost) entirely land-based map.

I had a go at it, though it's rather more difficult to do than I thought. I ended up having to use PSP, since Paint and Paint.net didn't quite do. I've attached it, though it probably won't work very well if indeed you want each of the 6 parts to be roughly equal ground for your opponents (?), assuming you start in the center stronghold.

Ooh, wait a minute, Paint can do transparency too. You can set the background color to the grassland green and then select your pattern and drag it over the random map. Or did you already know that, since you were talking about the overlaying in Paint?

 

[Jesdisciple]

Yup, the transparency feature of Paint was what I was talking about. I had to wrestle with it to get my pattern; I made each color except blue transparent by using two images, clearing, and copying back and forth. How'd you do it?

I had a bunch of trouble with terrain on mine, too. CivMapGen has an odd bias for jungle and desert; they were attracted toward the edges -top, bottom, left, right- of my map (with moderate climate), while glacier didn't care where a square was on the map - it even showed up at the equator! I'm thinking that tool isn't intended to build worlds, only regions.

terrain.mp is the map I put the pattern on. (I had to fill a few channels in, though, as not all sea squares were in good places.) I probably should have edited my post when I got mine done; sorry about that.

BTW, no, the middle civ is the super AI, like the Stygians of Midgard - with absurd advantages to supply a challenge.

 

[Mercator]

Yup, the transparency feature of Paint was what I was talking about. I had to wrestle with it to get my pattern; I made each color except blue transparent by using two images, clearing, and copying back and forth. How'd you do it?

Well, I only found out that worked after I'd already done it another way, but here's how I would do it, assuming you've aready got the two bitmaps...

Open the random map, set the background color to the grassland green and make sure Image > Draw Opaque is unchecked. Open the pattern map using Edit > Paste From... and drag it wherever you want. The grassland will be transparent, so the pattern map's ocean and center (assuming that still has rivers anyway) will act as a mask on the random map. Check Image > Draw Opaque, select and move the desired map up to the upper-left corner and use Image > Attributes... to crop the right and lower edges.

I had a bunch of trouble with terrain on mine, too. CivMapGen has an odd bias for jungle and desert; they were attracted toward the edges -top, bottom, left, right- of my map (with moderate climate), while glacier didn't care where a square was on the map - it even showed up at the equator! I'm thinking that tool isn't intended to build worlds, only regions.

Try changing the map shape to Round. It seems to me like on a flat map CivMapGen considers the equator to be the edges of the lower-half of the map, and the poles to be the edges of the upper-half of the map.

terrain.mp is the map I put the pattern on. (I had to fill a few channels in, though, as not all sea squares were in good places.) I probably should have edited my post when I got mine done; sorry about that.

Nevermind, it was just a test really...

BTW, no, the middle civ is the super AI, like the Stygians of Midgard - with absurd advantages to supply a challenge.

Ah, I think *I* would have put myself in the center.