Can I run my Special Domestic Advisor mod?

[Requies]

with GoTM? Actually, I was able to run it fine with it, but I'm just wondering if it's allowed. I'd really rather not play without it as it makes dealing with some of the micromanagement much less painful.

All it does is collect the information in various parts of the Civ 4 interface in one place so that you don't have to go through the monotony of checking each city.

OTOH, my Foreign Advisor, right now, would probably not be playable with the GoTM, since it currently provides extra information which you would not normally have (other player's COMPLETE treasury - I currently trying to fix this).

Req

 

[AlanH]

Until we can settle on how mod control will work for future GOTMs I recommend you don't get too hooked on any particular mod. See also my response in this thread

 

[Requies]

Until we can settle on how mod control will work for future GOTMs I recommend you don't get too hooked on any particular mod. See also my response in this thread

I understand, but I was asking specifically in relation to GoTM-1....

Thanks for the quick response!

Req

 

[ainwood]

If you can provide assurances and evidence that it only provides information available in-game, then in principle we will not have much problem with it going-forward (probably best to say 'no' for GOTM 01 though).

However, the whole way we handle mods needs to be carefully thought about. Python mods will be locked-out in future patches - however we'll probably look at some way to support a modset of some kind.

 

[MeteorPunch]

However, the whole way we handle mods needs to be carefully thought about. Python mods will be locked-out in future patches - however we'll probably look at some way to support a modset of some kind.

Did I read this right? The Python-based mods I'm using (eotinb's log, homebrew domestic advisor, tubby rower's clock/game turn) make the game more enjoyable. I hope mods such as these will continue to be available for GOTM.

 

[Quantum7]

Did I read this right? The Python-based mods I'm using (eotinb's log, homebrew domestic advisor, tubby rower's clock/game turn) make the game more enjoyable. I hope mods such as these will continue to be available for GOTM.

Probably because allowing python would allow for pretty much undetectable cheating. --> all or nothing.

I don't quite see though, how a GOTM-specific patch would be possible, unless you (ainwood) are talking about the next civ patch (that'd be weird).

Assuming it's something GOTM-specific, it'll probably still be a major problem to find the right balance between not making GOTM-play excruciatingly annoying (i.e. having to have two separate installations to play GOTM) and not making cheating so easy that results become meaningless.

For me personally I'd rather have an easy to play GOTM than very good cheating protection (as perfect cheating protection is impossible & undesirable anyway).

 

[AlanH]

I'm probably showing my ignorance, but it's my understanding that a GOTM start file can specify a GOTM-specific mod directory. You could install the approved-and-required set of mods that the start file is configured to expect, using an installer to be provided by us, I guess, and only GOTMs would know they were there and go looking for them. No manual switching or fiddling required.

As I say, my knowledge is hazy, and I may be talking through my hat, but that's how scenario mods in PtW and C3C work, so it would be a retrograde step if Civ4 has lost this ability.

 

[Quantum7]

I'm probably showing my ignorance, but it's my understanding that a GOTM start file can specify a GOTM-specific mod directory. You could install the approved-and-required set of mods that the start file is configured to expect, using an installer to be provided by us, I guess, and only GOTMs would know they were there and go looking for them. No manual switching or fiddling required.

As I say, my knowledge is hazy, and I may be talking through my hat, but that's how scenario mods in PtW and C3C work, so it would be a retrograde step if Civ4 has lost this ability.

Hopefully you're correct. This sounds good .

 

[Denniz]

I am not sure how the scenarios work but it seems like it is possible for the GOTM to be a scenario. What is confusing is that there are mutliple "Assets" folders.

For a normal game you have "My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Custom Assets" which the code checks before the installed verisions in "Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets".

What's interesting is that the scenarios that came with the games are in the "Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\Mods" folder and each have their own Assets folder. So if you are running a scenario, does it check the My Games' Custom Assets? Probably not. But what if the scenario is in the My Games' Custom Assets Mods folder?

One idea someone had that might work would be to use another user with a clean (approved mods only) "MY Games" folder. I think the main thing is to detect if someone has modified the orginal Assets files.

 

[Smirk]

As this sort of system is pretty typical in the gaming world, at leats with respect to modable (and patchable) games, I would suspect it loads the base assests, then looks elsewhere for the overrides. Finding a file in CustomAssets would replace any such file from the base set. This becomes effectively a tranparent filesystem to the game internals. This is an elegant system for maintaining a game, with patchs and expansions, both of which you should expect with Civ4. But as a bonus it makes it easy to mod the engine.


At any rate it seems problematic unless you can have a self contained mod. I would expect you could put all approved mods into a pak but that doesn't really stop someone from violating the approved python mods as anyone can unpak and repak.

 

[AlanH]

There's a field in the game file that defines a specific mod folder. This is very similar to the facility that Cracker used to mod PtW games. My assumption, possibly naive, is that we can specify a GOTM assets folder in that field. As long as the game finds it in Custom Assets, and they're the only custom assets that are loaded, then it'll run. If not then the checks will fail and it will give you that error several people became familiar with at the start of this game before we unprotected the save. I don't think the scenarios that came with the game are relevant to this process.

But I can't test any of this because I don't have the software, so others will have to decide whether I'm just making .

@Smirk: They can't (so easily) violate the pak if the assets to be used are checksummed in the save.

 

[ainwood]

AFAIK, the save protection (when its working properly) will prevent people from loading the save file, unless the assets files (python & XML) that they have are the same as those used to create the save file that they want to load.

In short - this means that if people want to use mods, then the save file has to be created on a machine with these mods installed (ie - a GOTM modpack is required).

We can (for example) have two saves - a 'clean' one for those people who don't want to install mods, and a 'modded' version where people have a standard modpack. The side-effect of this is that it will almost have to be an all-or-nothing approach to the mods - so the community will have to agree which ones to use.

I guess if it was done smartly, there could be some sort of switches in the mods - for example if there were two popular domestic advisor mods, then the mod could (somehow) contain both - and an .ini setting could perhaps be set by the user to determine which one to run. Not sure.

 

[Requies]

If you can provide assurances and evidence that it only provides information available in-game, then in principle we will not have much problem with it going-forward (probably best to say 'no' for GOTM 01 though).

However, the whole way we handle mods needs to be carefully thought about. Python mods will be locked-out in future patches - however we'll probably look at some way to support a modset of some kind.

I can provide assurance and evidence for my Domestic Advisor. My Financial Advisor unfortunately, right now, does not meet that criteria (I hoping to find a fix for it :/).

If you take a look at the Domestic Advisor thread, you'll see that it's really just a repackaging of data which is available through the basic cIV interface, just made MUCH easier to access by putting it on one (well, actually two) screens.

The Financial Advisor is the same (except for one bug I'm trying to fix). Basically, all the mods I plan to do will be similar (i.e., they won't alter gameplay, but will make things a LOT more convenient).

I understand the need to check to see that my mod does what it does, but I think it's pretty self-evident by anyone who uses it.

Thank you for and AlanH for the responses.

Req